Report: Sony single player games exclusive again

[Cartagia]

Just because you don't feel the need to be represented in the media you consume doesn't mean everyone feels the same way.

[zenimus]

Just because you don't feel the need to be represented in the media you consume doesn't mean everyone feels the same way.

Just for amusing arguments sake, let's explore how much you agree with your own statement.

Should I be upset that Kingdom Come: Deliverance II, a game set in medieval central Europe, doesn't have any black female representation?

If an Assassin's Creed game was set in Africa during the wars between the Oyo empire and the kingdom of Dahomey, would it be reasonable of me to complain that there are no white male characters?

If an Indian developer created an excellent new open world game with fat Indian woman as the main character, am I justified in being dismayed that there's no option to change her hair color to match mine?

[Cartagia]

You've intentionally chosen a narrow set of examples in an effort to refute something I never said.

I'm a 40 something straight white man.  I sometimes find it interesting and refreshing to put in the shoes of characters whose lives do not resemble my own, and sometimes I don't.  Depends entirely on the game, movie, book, or whatever I'm presented with.

You said gamers don't like it.  I'm a gamer and I think its great.  The existence of titles that can allow someone to feel represented through those kinds of options and designs doesn't stop other games from existing.

[telekill]

The existence of titles that can allow someone to feel represented through those kinds of options and designs doesn't stop other games from existing.

Therein lies the problem. For an entire generation+ mainstream western developers have pushed for anything other than white male characters and/or the uglification of characters. It quite literally prevented other "games" from existing. I'm honestly surprised Bond, in his upcoming game, was kept as a white male.

[Cartagia]

As usual the best selling games of 2025 were CoD, Battlefield, Madden, and other various sports titles.  Games that represent white dudes have gone nowhere.

[dhaabi]

I sometimes find it interesting and refreshing to put in the shoes of characters whose lives do not resemble my own, and sometimes I don't.  Depends entirely on the game, movie, book, or whatever I'm presented with.

You said gamers don't like it.  I'm a gamer and I think its great.  The existence of titles that can allow someone to feel represented through those kinds of options and designs doesn't stop other games from existing.

People with opposing views to these sorts of changes in gaming may say that they have no issue in assuming the role of anyone's identity—that they themselves personally don't need to be represented, or that they can look past on-screen representations altogether. But that's not true as we've seen that demonstrated several times in this topic alone. Some with these views may want to feel visibly represented by character design foremost whether they admit to it or not. In many of these same cases, what's also wanted is the need to feel represented by the values they support, including values that directly oppose others.

If these claim were true, there wouldn't be issues when new character identities are introduced within gaming, including within established IPs. But they aren't true, and such opposition is often for no reason other than they certain demographics exist at all in gaming. Gaming isn't just a hobby mostly enjoyed by the narrow demographic it once was defined by throughout the '90s—something that may seem unwilling to accept. It should go without saying that the types of games people enjoyed then are still being made too. Maybe they're less dominated by certain character depictions while instead fostering new ones, or maybe characters have sometimes been adjusted to cater to the expectations of modern audiences that again isn't strictly defined by white men only. No type of character or game has disappeared, though, much to anyone's testament otherwise.

Why women players in particular take issue with the design choices of women characters is that the former not only has felt historically misrepresented but simultaneously exploited in ways they already deal with in real life. It isn't that they're "psychologically fragile," which is, frankly, an incredibly misogynistic statement to make. When that sort of commentary was being voiced in this topic, I quickly confronted it. As a longtime and active community member, I don't want that sort of rhetoric to feel welcome here.

[dhaabi]

We don't see many strong male leads or attractive women in western games anymore because of that worldview.

Therein lies the problem. For an entire generation+ mainstream western developers have pushed for anything other than white male characters and/or the uglification of characters. It quite literally prevented other "games" from existing. I'm honestly surprised Bond, in his upcoming game, was kept as a white male.

I was curious about what the actual ratio is between games featuring white men as protagonists versus any other protagonist may be. So, I specifically looked at games published by Sony and developed by Western studios since 2017 (*with two exceptions I'll note.) I've excluded games featuring non-human protagonists, games with no clearly-defined protagonist, or games with racially-ambiguous protagonists. So, here is that list, with information sourced from here:

God of War (2018)
Marvel's Spider-Man (2018)
Shadow of the Colossus (2018)
Days Gone (2019)
Death Stranding (2019) (*this is a Japanese-developed game heavily commenting on American politics and culture and seems appropriate to include; see sequel below)
Blood & Truth (2019)
Marvel's Iron Man VR (2020)
God of War Ragnarök (2022)
Horizon Call of the Mountain (2023)
Death Stranding 2: On the Beach (2025) (*see first installment above)
God of War Sons of Sparta (2026)

I will also note that, specifically, games with the same criteria but featuring non-white men protagonists are few. They are only Ghost of Tsushima (2020) and Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales (2020).

Since opposition to the presumed shift of protagonists from AAA studios (I'm interpreting that from "mainstream Western developers") is typically vocal about which women characters (of all ethnicities) are or aren't attractive (which I'll note is a shallow metric needing to be fulfilled and again relates to misogyny—how often is that same metric applied to men characters?), I've merely listed them all below since no objective definition toward attractiveness can be made. Again, these are protagonists from games with the same criteria as outlined above.

Horizon Zero Dawn (2017)
Uncharted: The Lost Legacy (2017)
Erica (2019)
The Last of Us Part II (2020)
Returnal (2021)
Horizon Forbidden West (2022)
Ghost of Yōtei (2025)

If I've overlooked any other items for any of the above subsets, it was unintentional.

Thank God for the independent developers and creatores because they are saving the entertainment industry.

Interestingly, you credit independent and small-budget developers as being the ones to "save" gaming, though they're overwhelmingly the ones who incorporate characters, settings, and plots defined by the aspects you're critiquing.

[telekill]

God of War (2018)  -- Continuation of PS2 game.
Marvel's Spider-Man (2018) -- Decades of history.
Shadow of the Colossus (2018) -- Remake of a PS2 game.
Days Gone (2019) -- New IP. I'll allow it.
Death Stranding (2019) (*this is a Japanese-developed game heavily commenting on American politics and culture and seems appropriate to include; see sequel below) -- Japanese dev. Doesn't count.
Blood & Truth (2019) -- Not heard of this one. I'll look into it.
Marvel's Iron Man VR (2020) -- Decades of history. VR = vomit.
God of War Ragnarök (2022) -- Continunation of PS2 legacy series.
Horizon Call of the Mountain (2023) -- I honestly ignored this one. VR = vomit.
Death Stranding 2: On the Beach (2025) (*see first installment above) -- Japanese dev. Doesn't count.
God of War Sons of Sparta (2026) -- Half-assed prequel to PS2 legacy series.

I will also note that, specifically, games with the same criteria but featuring non-white men protagonists are few. They are only Ghost of Tsushima (2020) and Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales (2020).

Horizon Zero Dawn (2017)
Uncharted: The Lost Legacy (2017)
Erica (2019)
The Last of Us Part II (2020)
Returnal (2021)
Horizon Forbidden West (2022)
Ghost of Yōtei (2025)

If I've overlooked any other items for any of the above subsets, it was unintentional.[/font]

Thank God for the independent developers and creatores because they are saving the entertainment industry.

Interestingly, you credit independent and small-budget developers as being the ones to "save" gaming, though they're overwhelmingly the ones who incorporate characters, settings, and plots defined by the aspects you're critiquing.

Actually, we're finally seeing a good spread of ideas and characters int he indie space. They don't have gate keepers trying to spit in the face of what was once the demographic, but is now shunned.

Let me add to your list of non-white males.
 - Forspoken
 - Deathloop
 - Flintlock: Siege of Dawn
 - South of Midnight
 - Relooted
 - Jurassic Park: Survival

Look, it's not even about white vs other demographics. It's not about female vs male. It's that most gamers, yeah, most, are sick and tired of the constant preachy agenda. It's been so over the top for the last 15 years with escalation in all areas that even a whif of it and it's an immediate ignore from swaths of potential customers. It doesn't matter if the game is even decent anymore. It'll be ignored before it's even attempted because we're that sick of it. By all means, you do you. But I'm not going to purchase anything attempting to shame me for being born white or male.

[telekill]

As usual the best selling games of 2025 were CoD, Battlefield, Madden, and other various sports titles.  Games that represent white dudes have gone nowhere.

You listed sports and dude bro games that went full woke. Battlefield 6 forces you to listen to women scream in agony as they're shot, making the good unlockable skins from BF2042 as female only voice overs. CoD... who the hell even knows what they're doing anymore. Crazy developer. Then sports games... really? Most sports with the exception of Hockey and Baseball are not white men.

[kashell]

Look, it's not even about white vs other demographics. It's not about female vs male. It's that most gamers, yeah, most, are sick and tired of the constant preachy agenda. It's been so over the top for the last 15 years with escalation in all areas that even a whif of it and it's an immediate ignore from swaths of potential customers. It doesn't matter if the game is even decent anymore. It'll be ignored before it's even attempted because we're that sick of it. By all means, you do you. But I'm not going to purchase anything attempting to shame me for being born white or male.

Source - "Trust Me, Bro."

[dhaabi]

Look, it's not even about white vs other demographics. It's not about female vs male. It's that most gamers, yeah, most, are sick and tired of the constant preachy agenda. It's been so over the top for the last 15 years with escalation in all areas that even a whif of it and it's an immediate ignore from swaths of potential customers. It doesn't matter if the game is even decent anymore. It'll be ignored before it's even attempted because we're that sick of it. By all means, you do you. But I'm not going to purchase anything attempting to shame me for being born white or male.

Aside from the Death Stranding titles which I concede don't meet your conditions though still think are relevant to the subset, you sure are adjusting the criteria to get your point across.

Nevertheless, I ask in good faith which games have shamed the white men demographic? Which games featuring non-white, non-men protagonists—or any character at all among the cast—have undeniably vilified white men on the basis of gender and race because of development choices pertaining to characterization, visual presentation, plot, setting, or any other design aspect? As I mentioned in my previous post, is the mere presence of non-white, non-men characters that threatening to you and "most gamers"? Because unless my first question can be answered with trending evidence, then it certainly seems that because such characters exist at all is enough to make you feel persecuted by your own volition.

In trying to answer this question myself, I did stumble upon this spreadsheet of a curated list of games with "woke content." We too can easily vet our Steam libraries with a tool to see just which games are flagged, and it's frequently being updated as evidenced from an update five hours ago as of this posting. So, if there is only one takeaway from these paired sources to be gained, it is that certain individuals who feel so targeted by anything that's anti-them will eventually have no plot- or character-focused media of any kind to engage with should this level of sensitivity be so pronounced with no ceiling in sight. Eventually, these sorts of individuals will have voluntarily removed themselves from culture altogether.

Actually, we're finally seeing a good spread of ideas and characters int he indie space. They don't have gate keepers trying to spit in the face of what was once the demographic, but is now shunned.

Oh, I don't reject the idea that there are games within the indie space that are designed with the values you support. All sorts of experiences exist from independent creators of all kinds, so that's to be expected. What I stated is that games featuring values you don't support are far more prevalent from indie published projects than AAA or even AA ones.

[telekill]

So, if there is only one takeaway from these paired sources to be gained, it is that certain individuals who feel so targeted by anything that's anti-them will eventually have no plot- or character-focused media of any kind to engage with should this level of sensitivity be so pronounced with no ceiling in sight. Eventually, these sorts of individuals will have voluntarily removed themselves from culture altogether.[/font]

So you're saying if I don't participate by buying games that people, through their own posts, admit they hate white men, then I'm removing myself from culture?

Admittedly, these games may not shame whites or males directly but those that create them do and I refuse to pay their checks with a purchase. Any developer, artist, actor, etc that's involved in activism, then their project is dead to me. It doesn't matter how good it may be. Take for instance the newest Ghost game. I absolutely loved the first, but when I learned who the voice actress was for the sequel, what she spouts and adheres too, and then the hateful posts much of the team of devs liked... that was the death of that series for me.

Oh, I don't reject the idea that there are games within the indie space that are designed with the values you support. All sorts of experiences exist from independent creators of all kinds, so that's to be expected. What I stated is that games featuring values you don't support are far more prevalent from indie published projects than AAA or even AA ones.

Yeah, there's people at all levels I'm going to disagree with. Take 1348 Ex Voto as an example. I won't touch that with a ten foot pole, but am interested in Knight's Path because they won't push the agenda. It's a stark contrast.

As a last note, unrelated to the above, I'm not sure what even consititutes AA vs AAA anymore. Looking at small studios putting out games like A Plague Tale, it's an indie dev that basically put out a AAA game. Same for the upcoming Blight: Survival. Tiny dev putting out tremendous work.

[dhaabi]

So, if there is only one takeaway from these paired sources to be gained, it is that certain individuals who feel so targeted by anything that's anti-them will eventually have no plot- or character-focused media of any kind to engage with should this level of sensitivity be so pronounced with no ceiling in sight. Eventually, these sorts of individuals will have voluntarily removed themselves from culture altogether.

So you're saying if I don't participate by buying games that people, through their own posts, admit they hate white men, then I'm removing myself from culture?

No, and it's clear that's not what I said. The takeaway from my previous comment is that the individuals who subscribe to the way of thought I discussed will find anything to criticitize and wholly reject in an effort to bolster their principles—including things they previously supported. So with that understanding, there may eventually come a time when what sort of media these kinds of individuals feel is adequate to engage in is extremely limited and largely removed from what the general population does engage in that forms entertainment culture. If you skim through the list from the first link I provided above, it's apparent that it takes little to be flagged as "woke," and often for frivolous reasons too. Now, whether you're one of these individuals or not, I don't know. To clarify, I never labeled you as such. As a short aside: the game you recently bought and are now currently playing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Splintered Fate is a project developed by a studio that proudly advertises their efforts to promote DEI workplace practices, as seen from their company page. Maybe that's concerning to you. And if it is, maybe you can look past that and instead enjoy a game from a franchise that you've made clear in the past you love.

Admittedly, these games may not shame whites or males directly but those that create them do and I refuse to pay their checks with a purchase. Any developer, artist, actor, etc that's involved in activism, then their project is dead to me. It doesn't matter how good it may be. Take for instance the newest Ghost game. I absolutely loved the first, but when I learned who the voice actress was for the sequel, what she spouts and adheres too, and then the hateful posts much of the team of devs liked... that was the death of that series for me.

Returning back to people having the choice to support the works of others or not, there certainly are means to engage in creative works even when one doesn't support the creators themselves. For video games, electing to use the secondary market to acquire items when that option is available is most obvious. I partly mention this because of your previous comment stating how games with values you don't agree with but are otherwise decent will "be ignored [...] because we're that sick of it." Though by your own omission, the aspect you seem to largely take issue with (games that purportedly shame white men) only exists outside of creative works themselves, though to how prevalent or true these claims are remains to be seen but is something we should refrain from discussing with any greater focus in this public forum space.

Oh, I don't reject the idea that there are games within the indie space that are designed with the values you support. All sorts of experiences exist from independent creators of all kinds, so that's to be expected. What I stated is that games featuring values you don't support are far more prevalent from indie published projects than AAA or even AA ones.

Yeah, there's people at all levels I'm going to disagree with. Take 1348 Ex Voto as an example. I won't touch that with a ten foot pole, but am interested in Knight's Path because they won't push the agenda. It's a stark contrast.

Ironically, you mention Knight's Path because of the developers' stance on "modern agendas," though it itself is a political statement that just so happens to align with your own personal values; at the same time, it's an example of someone advocating for an agenda but one that's opposite of the values they seemingly oppose. Of course, there's nothing wrong with choosing to avoid things that conflict with one's own personal values. But to not acknowledge the similarities between these two examples you've provided is demonstrating bias. On a related note—just how the developers chose to answer the question being asked that's led to this controversy is rather telling. They easily could have just answered by saying something to the effect of no, this isn't how we envision our project but instead worded their response in a way to generate publicity. From the discussions I've read, many people comprised of both supporters and opponents of their statement only seemed to become aware of this game following the event. So, it's worked in their favor.

As a last note, unrelated to the above, I'm not sure what even consititutes AA vs AAA anymore. Looking at small studios putting out games like A Plague Tale, it's an indie dev that basically put out a AAA game. Same for the upcoming Blight: Survival. Tiny dev putting out tremendous work.

You're not alone. I generally avoid these types of labels because there's little meaning behind them and they can't actually be defined. I decided to make the distinction then anyway just to get the point across that smaller developers are generally more likely to harbor those values (demonstrated through their creative projects or publicly removed from their work) than larger developers bound to publishers are.

[2ko]

I'm so tired of the "gamers need characters they can identify with" view. No we don't.

You're saying this in a discussion that was started because someone said they didn't like the fact that Aloy's sexual orientation was revealed in the story, and then multiple people went on to describe how they don't want to play "ugly characters pushing leftist agendas" (paraphrasing, but that's basically the message I got from several of the posts).

It's pretty clear to me that for a lot of people that claim it doesn't matter to them, it actually matters a lot because they are super vocal about it whenever a character does not appeal to them. They can't just ignore it and play the games that actually appeal to them. They gotta complain about it and let everyone know "hey I don't like this game because this character doesn't appeal to me at all!"

Do I personally wish there were more games with characters that looked like 2B rather than *Insert any character from the Concord roster*? Yeah 100%. But I'm also fine with Alloy and Ellie not looking like that, for there to be games about lesbians in the middle ages and to play a character I personally don't find hot in Naughty Dog's new game.

Some people aren't fine with that fact though, but will argue until they are blue in the face that it doesn't matter. You gotta pick one. Either it doesn't matter and we can all stop talking about how a character looks or identifies, or it does matter and we can continue complaining about how white men are being erased from video games and how there is a lack of black lesbian representation in games. It can't be both ways.

I'm on team it doesn't actually matter. The fact that Aloy turned out to be a lesbian didn't matter to me. It was no different than watching Nathan Drake fall in love with Elena Fisher. In the same breath, the fact that Stellar Blade and 2B are super hot also doesn't bother me at all. I like playing as super good looking characters, and a bit of fanservice isn't bad. Given the option, I'm always playing as a character that is closer to 2B than Abby from the Last of Us 2. But I don't hate Abby as Neir and The Last of Us are completely different settings, art directions and tones. It would actually be weird of Abby was some skinny hot girl with flawless skin given the character's background and circumstances.

What I am seeing in this thread though is that most people are on team "it matters a lot". Otherwise this discussion would have ended a while a go.

[telekill]

You're not alone. I generally avoid these types of labels because there's little meaning behind them and they can't actually be defined. I decided to make the distinction then anyway just to get the point across that smaller developers are generally more likely to harbor those values (demonstrated through their creative projects or publicly removed from their work) than larger developers bound to publishers are.

As a last note, if I were to take the time to research every employee at every studio, it would be impossible to find a game without someone behind it that's fully entrenched in leftist ideology. There would be no games left to play. For me, it's how loud those in prominent positions are regarding that ideology and if it's blatant. Often these additions and/or changes aren't merely celebrated but used as a way to attack any who oppose their beliefs. The actions of those that are often loudest are why I and many others reject to support their projects.

Dhaabi, as always, you're well spoken and I understand where you're coming from, but we won't align on this topic. Still, I appreciate the ability to "sit and chat" about such things without it escalating to insanity.