Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement

[tripredacus]

Please read the entire thread before choosing a poll option. Poll will run for 7 days (give or take) and the results will win out and become the rule. Users have the ability to change their vote. Rules in the Style Guide can be voted on again in the future or new ones can be brought. You can submit additional ideas to bring up for voting in this thread:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,8361.0.html

This poll is specifically to determine as to which category a physical game release should be put in if the packaging features branding or compatibility information relating to more than 1 console release with a console release family. Multi-platform releases such as those for microcomputers (C64, Amstrad, Spectrum, etc) or game releases with peripheral requirements (such as Sega CD 32X) are not being considered at this time.

Examples
1. Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One and Xbox Series X titles often have co-branding on the front, sometimes showing multiple console names on the case or the cover, or may have a case/cover for a specific console and a label for another console. Most Xbox games will have text on the back to indicate which console the game is actually for, irrespective of what branding may exist on the front cover.

Gears Tactics has front text in the black box as "Xbox Series X - Xbox One" and an Xbox Series X label. On the back cover is the text: "For use only with Xbox One or new consoles with optical drive." The disc has the Xbox logo, and text "Xbox Series X - Xbox One" The game entry currently exists in the Xbox One [NA] category.

Bully Scholarship Edition has logos on the case for Xbox One and Xbox 360. It has text in the black bar on the cover "Plays on Xbox One and Xbox 360". It has text on the cover "Xbox 360 Game will download to Xbox One console." It has text on the back: "For use with Xbox 360 entertainment systems with NTSC designation." The disc has Xbox One and Xbox 360 logos. The game entry currently exists in the Xbox One [NA] category.

Sneak King has on the front cover only Xbox logo, but the cover design is based on the Xbox 360 design. Front cover has text "Includes Xbox 360 and Original Xbox Versions." Back cover has text "For use only with Original Xbox and Xbox 360 entertainment systems with NTSC designation." The game entry currently exists in the Xbox 360 [NA] category, but you can see on the history tab that the platform has been changed multiple times over the past 10 years.

2. PlayStation 4 games released with PlayStation 5 compatibility notes. These are games that are PS4 games that when used on a PS5, it will download the game from PSN. The PS4 disc is not playable on PS5.

Watch Dogs Legion has the PS4 cover design and logo at top. It has text on cover: "PS5 Upgrade Available." It has text on the back "Upgrade to the digital PS5 version of the game at no additional cost. To upgrade eligible PS4 disc copies, players need a PS5 console with a disc drive." and "Licensed for play on PS4 systems in the United States." The game disc has the PS4 branding. This game entry is currently in the PS4 [NA] category.

3. Atari 2600 red box releases are 2600 games that were released during the lifespan of the Atari 7800 and feature compatibility text on the packaging.

Venture has front cover text "Atari 2600 Video Game Cartridge." It has back text "For use with Atari 2600 and 7800 Series Systems." The cartridge label has text "Atari 2600 Video Game Cartridge" and "Atari 2600." This game entry is currently in the Atari 2600 [NA] category.

4. PlayStation games showing forward compatibility for PS2.

Kowai Shashin has text on obi-strip:
このソフトは
"PlayStation"
"PlayStation"(PS one)
"PlayStation 2"
のどれでも遊べます
It is currently in the PlayStation [JP] category

The choices are as follows:
Method 1: Co-branded games go in the category of the newest console
If an item has branding or mention of multiple consoles, the item will go into the category for the newer one.
Implications using the Examples
Gears Tactics -> Xbox Series X
Bully Scholarship Edition -> Xbox One
Sneak King -> Xbox 360
Watch Dogs Legion -> PS5
Venture -> 7800
Kowai Shashin -> PS2

Method 2: Co-branded games go in the category of the oldest console
If an item has branding or mention of multiple consoles, the item will go into the category for the older one.
Implications using the Examples
Gears Tactics -> Xbox One
Bully Scholarship Edition -> Xbox 360
Sneak King -> Xbox
Watch Dogs Legion -> PS4
Venture -> 2600
Kowai Shashin -> PS1

Method 3: Co-branded games that have compatibility info go into the category represented by that text, if compatibility text is not present then it goes into the category of the newer console
The "compatibility text" specified in this method is directly relating to games that specifically refer to a single console as being what the game is designed for. This relates mostly to the Xbox titles.
Implications using the Examples
Gears Tactics -> Xbox One
Bully Scholarship Edition -> Xbox 360
Sneak King -> Xbox 360
Watch Dogs Legion -> PS4
Venture -> 7800
Kowai Shashin -> PS2

Method 5: Create co-branded game categories
Rather than having to continuously have edit battles or disagreements as to which category one of these types of games belongs to, we would create new categories for multi-branded games as needed. Now this option would also apply to computers and micro computers. NOTE: this would only apply to items that have branding or compatibility text, and would not allow all PS1 games to be put into a PS1 / PS2 category.
Implications using the Examples
Gears Tactics -> Xbox One / Xbox Series X
Bully Scholarship -> Xbox 360 / Xbox One
Sneak King -> Xbox / Xbox 360
Watch Dogs Legion -> PS4 / PS5
Kowai Shashin -> PS1 / PS2
additonally, it opens up these types of categories to be created as needed:
PC / MAC
PC / MAC / Linux
C64 / Amstrad
etc

You can change your mind and change your vote if you like. Poll is set for 10 days until expiration.

Original discussion thread is here:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,11382.0.html

[dhaabi]

Using the Watch Dogs: Legion - PlayStation 4 [NA] example to make a point, I'm curious how this will be handled if it does end up being classified as PlayStation 5 [NA]. It will need a descriptor as part of its entry name, for sure, on account of that it's been made clear that there is a PlayStation 4 version and a PlayStation 5 version.

[tripredacus]

I had considered adding another option, which would be the opposite of #3, changing newer to older. The issue was that with all of the co-branding examples we had found, the result was #3 with "older" had the same implications as #2.

And it may end up being messy, but if option 1 come out the winner, then it leaves us open to future votes for specific examples. This poll is really about the "general rule" for all item. In a scenario where option 1 is the new general rule, then a person could request a vote to classify PS4 with the PS5 compatibility text to be put into PS4 category.

Still none of these poll choices are going to resolve the issue or people creating entries in the "wrong" categories, but at least we will have something to tell us what categories they are supposed to be in so we can move items or merge dupes properly.

[retromangia]

I'll just throw out my opinion, right or wrong, and say I think we should file them under Newest Console, then just add their backwards compatibility under the compatibility text within that entry. 

Nice & simple 

[ignition365]

I think my opinion doesn't fall under any categories, so I went with the one that seemed the least wrong.

[dhaabi]

I'll just throw out my opinion, right or wrong, and say I think we should file them under Newest Console, then just add their backwards compatibility under the compatibility text within that entry. 

Nice & simple 

I think that, with whatever option is voted in, adding the appropriate text for further clarification within the Description field should be the protocol for all the items in question. This would help lessen the amount of attempts to re-categorize the items.

[emporerdragon]

I think my opinion doesn't fall under any categories, so I went with the one that seemed the least wrong.

Same. 1 is the closest for me, but the one I really'd disagree with the most is the Watch Dogs example. To me, it's a PS4 game with a free download of a PS5 game. By contrast, Gears Tactics contains both the One and Series X versions of the game, but as it's branded with a Series X box, it would be considered a Series X game.

[weirdfeline]

Marking a game like Watch Dogs Legion which is clearly a PS4 version as a PS5 game would be very stupid.

It's also not true that the PS4 version can't be played on PS5. You can choose between playing PS4 or PS5. I don't think it auto downloads either you have to "purchase" the digital PS5 version for free from the store unless they've changed it since launch.

[tripredacus]

The contents of the game disc, or what the console does when you insert the disc is beyond the scope of this poll and should not be considered. The entries we are talking about are a plastic case with a disc inside. The question is, what is the category these physical items should be put into?

And this poll is for general rule for the Style Guide. If the consensus is that the poll option that wins is good for general rule, but not good for say PS4 games with a PS5 sticker, then we can certainly consider adding a separate rule that excludes PS4 games. Obviously, this issue with what category to put games into seems solely an Xbox issue, and those items are going to be the one that primarily benefit from actually setting a multi-platform rule into the Style Guide.

[leonefamily]

It's nice to see an actual poll being made about it since it is an issue that I brought to attention a few months ago. I'm unsure what option would be best to choose, but my general goal would be to follow the box style. For instance, GTA San: Andreas on 360 has 2 versions, the 360 "DVD sized" box and the later version branded as 360 & ONE featuring the ONE box style. Sure, the disc ISO is the same I believe, but since the box style of the second version follows the ONE style, it should be under Xbox One. Same for Xbox demo discs, a portion of them play on both the original Xbox and Xbox 360, but when I tasked myself with cleaning up the Xbox Demo section in the database 2 years ago (and I'm still not done yet) I treated those releases as 360 Demo and not OG Xbox Demo. And finally, the fact that this is already how most of us did things in the database, it is logical to keep it this way. But yes, the opposite would be true, in the case of that Watch Dogs Legion release for instance, it's definetly a PS4 game, who cares that the PS5 can still play it, it's called retrocompatibility. If there's a PS4 logo, it's a PS4 release. If there's a PS5 logo, it's a PS5 release. If there's both logos but the box style is closer to one console, we should list it under that console. And as for those ONE/Series cross-platform releases, both logos are there and the box style is exactly the same between both consoles, so you have to view the retrocompatibility argument. If it plays in both consoles it just means that it's a Xbox One game and it's simply recognised as a Xbox One game internally when inserted in a Xbox Series and your game is merely played on retrocompability mode. That's the way I see it, but yeah blurring the line between game generations is causing a lot of problems for archivists and I hate this trend.

[aliensstudios]

I'll go with the rule of: lowest common denominator. At the end of the day these are Xbox 360 game discs that happen to be compatible with Xbox One. Until such a time as we can have single items be in two separate categories, I think that this is the best option.

[ignition365]

It's nice to see an actual poll being made about it since it is an issue that I brought to attention a few months ago. I'm unsure what option would be best to choose, but my general goal would be to follow the box style. For instance, GTA San: Andreas on 360 has 2 versions, the 360 "DVD sized" box and the later version branded as 360 & ONE featuring the ONE box style. Sure, the disc ISO is the same I believe, but since the box style of the second version follows the ONE style, it should be under Xbox One. Same for Xbox demo discs, a portion of them play on both the original Xbox and Xbox 360, but when I tasked myself with cleaning up the Xbox Demo section in the database 2 years ago (and I'm still not done yet) I treated those releases as 360 Demo and not OG Xbox Demo. And finally, the fact that this is already how most of us did things in the database, it is logical to keep it this way. But yes, the opposite would be true, in the case of that Watch Dogs Legion release for instance, it's definetly a PS4 game, who cares that the PS5 can still play it, it's called retrocompatibility. If there's a PS4 logo, it's a PS4 release. If there's a PS5 logo, it's a PS5 release. If there's both logos but the box style is closer to one console, we should list it under that console. And as for those ONE/Series cross-platform releases, both logos are there and the box style is exactly the same between both consoles, so you have to view the retrocompatibility argument. If it plays in both consoles it just means that it's a Xbox One game and it's simply recognised as a Xbox One game internally when inserted in a Xbox Series and your game is merely played on retrocompability mode. That's the way I see it, but yeah blurring the line between game generations is causing a lot of problems for archivists and I hate this trend.

This was the option I wanted essentially.

[pzeke]

As I once suggested, these type of releases should be categorized under the consoles they're for, as in an entry for any given game showing the platforms it's for. In other words, a game like Sneak King showing it's for both "Xbox" and "Xbox 360". This obviously wouldn't apply to backward compatible games, meaning a PS1 game remains a PS1 game.

Now that's an update I feel is far more practical and serviceable than a "now playing" and "backlog" lists.

Marking a game like Watch Dogs Legion which is clearly a PS4 version as a PS5 game would be very stupid.

As would be categorizing what's clearly a PS1 game as a PS2 game. Beyond stupid.

[tripredacus]

in the case of that Watch Dogs Legion release for instance, it's definetly a PS4 game, who cares that the PS5 can still play it, it's called retrocompatibility. If there's a PS4 logo, it's a PS4 release. If there's a PS5 logo, it's a PS5 release.

Since this poll is just for the over-arching rule and the fact that there are instances that would conflict with "common sense" I will consider creating additional polls following the conclusion of this one.

Method 1 winner
- create poll specifically for PS4 games with PS5 compatibility text

Method 2 winner
- create poll specifically for Xbox games with compatibility text on the back cover

Unless I've got it backwards, this should sufficiently handle to two main points of contention. It does leave outliers like the PS1 game that says you can play it on a PS2 if Method 1 ends up being the winner.

Or... perhaps make those two polls regardless of which method ends up being the winner. Let me know if this changes any thoughts you have on what would be the better "general rule" if we could then make platform specific rules for these two types of items. After all, we do have a platform specific rule for item numbers.

[dhaabi]

Bump