Author Topic: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion  (Read 3205 times)

gf78

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2015, 11:29:20 am »
All that said. This Christmas we are adding the PS4 and XboxOne to our collection. Rare Replay and Rise of the Tomb Raider were enough for me. :)

I bought a copy of Rare Replay when Walmart was blowing them out on Black Friday.  While I don't own a 'bone, I play these games in an emulator so I feel all warm & legal now.   ;D  As for Rise of the Tomb Raider, I really do want to play that.  But...it's coming out in less than a year now for the PS4 and I'm sure it will have any kinks worked out of it and will look a bit better.  May even include some of the DLC on the disc since we had to wait for it.  It would really bother me being a timed exclusive except that I have more games than I can handle on my plate as is.
Currently playing:  Ocarina of Time 3D, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe & Super Smash Bros Ultimate
Currently listening to:  Ghost, In This Moment & Kiss
Currently Watching:  Enterprise Season 2, Once Upon a Deadpool

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2015, 03:33:06 pm »
I opted to buy a PS4 last September when Destiny came out. Obviously I could have got it on Xbox One or even last gen consoles, so I'm not saying that's why I chose PS4, just what finally gave me the push to get one. I chose the PS4 as I knew it would be the best platform for JRPGs (also tbf at the time it was cheaper than XONE).

During the last generation, I first got an Xbox 360 and tbh for that period it was the right choice as for a phase I was really invested in multiplayer online shooters and for that, the 360 was far superior to the PS3; with exclusives like Halo and Gears, and with Xbox Live being well worth the price when compared to the pitiful PSN. Oh and the controller was far superior too. So I don't regret my choice too much, but I did always miss my JRPGs with there being slim pickings (I did enjoy Star Ocean, Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia though).

I was a late adopter of the PS3, I picked mine up for The Last of Us and it was worth it, had I never played another game on the system, it would have been worth it. It was great to have access to so many JRPGs all of a sudden; the likes of Ni No Kuni for example.

I'll be honest thus far there isn't much on the PS4 that I couldn't play on the XONE if I had one, or on my PS3. I only own two exclusives; Infamous: Second Son and Until Dawn. However I know the PS4 has plenty to come with the likes of Uncharted 4, Persona 5 (I'll be surprised if the PS3 version comes out of Japan) and No Man's Sky. The PSN is much improved from the previous gen and the controller is probably the best of the generation.

As for my thoughts on XONE. I've played one. The controller isn't as good as the 360's but it plays fine. I do envy titles such as Rare Replay (I mean what an insane collection, never seen so many classic titles on one disk) and Halo 5. And I'f love to play some of my favorite 360 titles up-scaled like Gears of War Definitive and The Master Chief Collection (now that it's fixed). So I probably will end up picking up an XONE eventually but there's no rush. I also wonder what they have up their sleeve? Aside from Gears of War 4 and an inevitable Halo 6, what do they bring to the table? They don't have anything else really, unless they start making more 3rd party deals.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 03:37:41 pm by kmacdw »



gf78

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2015, 10:59:25 pm »
I opted to buy a PS4 last September when Destiny came out. Obviously I could have got it on Xbox One or even last gen consoles, so I'm not saying that's why I chose PS4, just what finally gave me the push to get one. I chose the PS4 as I knew it would be the best platform for JRPGs (also tbf at the time it was cheaper than XONE).

During the last generation, I first got an Xbox 360 and tbh for that period it was the right choice as for a phase I was really invested in multiplayer online shooters and for that, the 360 was far superior to the PS3; with exclusives like Halo and Gears, and with Xbox Live being well worth the price when compared to the pitiful PSN. Oh and the controller was far superior too. So I don't regret my choice too much, but I did always miss my JRPGs with there being slim pickings (I did enjoy Star Ocean, Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia though).

I was a late adopter of the PS3, I picked mine up for The Last of Us and it was worth it, had I never played another game on the system, it would have been worth it. It was great to have access to so many JRPGs all of a sudden; the likes of Ni No Kuni for example.

I'll be honest thus far there isn't much on the PS4 that I couldn't play on the XONE if I had one, or on my PS3. I only own two exclusives; Infamous: Second Son and Until Dawn. However I know the PS4 has plenty to come with the likes of Uncharted 4, Persona 5 (I'll be surprised if the PS3 version comes out of Japan) and No Man's Sky. The PSN is much improved from the previous gen and the controller is probably the best of the generation.

As for my thoughts on XONE. I've played one. The controller isn't as good as the 360's but it plays fine. I do envy titles such as Rare Replay (I mean what an insane collection, never seen so many classic titles on one disk) and Halo 5. And I'f love to play some of my favorite 360 titles up-scaled like Gears of War Definitive and The Master Chief Collection (now that it's fixed). So I probably will end up picking up an XONE eventually but there's no rush. I also wonder what they have up their sleeve? Aside from Gears of War 4 and an inevitable Halo 6, what do they bring to the table? They don't have anything else really, unless they start making more 3rd party deals.

With how low sales for Rise of Tomb Raider are, I think Microsoft may think twice before investing in paid or timed exclusives. Rise has done nothing to bolster Xbox One sales and I don't see how the heads in charge can see it as anything but a bad investment. Third parties are releasing more and more of their games only on PS4 so they basically become PS4 exclusives by default. Other 3rd party exclusives have failed to ignite the sales charts as well. Sunset Overdrive was one of the 'bones best exclusives and it sold well below expectations. After Scalebound and the few other exclusives already announced, I don't see many more coming. If Microsoft even makes another console after the 'bone I would be surprised. I see them furthering their push into services like Xbox Live and leaving the hardware race. It has never been profitable for them.
Currently playing:  Ocarina of Time 3D, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe & Super Smash Bros Ultimate
Currently listening to:  Ghost, In This Moment & Kiss
Currently Watching:  Enterprise Season 2, Once Upon a Deadpool

dashv

PRO Supporter

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2015, 11:26:26 pm »
The low sales of RoTR are probably a result of the entire TR community feeling kicked in the balls by the whole timed exclusive thing.

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2015, 07:20:31 am »
I opted to buy a PS4 last September when Destiny came out. Obviously I could have got it on Xbox One or even last gen consoles, so I'm not saying that's why I chose PS4, just what finally gave me the push to get one. I chose the PS4 as I knew it would be the best platform for JRPGs (also tbf at the time it was cheaper than XONE).

During the last generation, I first got an Xbox 360 and tbh for that period it was the right choice as for a phase I was really invested in multiplayer online shooters and for that, the 360 was far superior to the PS3; with exclusives like Halo and Gears, and with Xbox Live being well worth the price when compared to the pitiful PSN. Oh and the controller was far superior too. So I don't regret my choice too much, but I did always miss my JRPGs with there being slim pickings (I did enjoy Star Ocean, Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia though).

I was a late adopter of the PS3, I picked mine up for The Last of Us and it was worth it, had I never played another game on the system, it would have been worth it. It was great to have access to so many JRPGs all of a sudden; the likes of Ni No Kuni for example.

I'll be honest thus far there isn't much on the PS4 that I couldn't play on the XONE if I had one, or on my PS3. I only own two exclusives; Infamous: Second Son and Until Dawn. However I know the PS4 has plenty to come with the likes of Uncharted 4, Persona 5 (I'll be surprised if the PS3 version comes out of Japan) and No Man's Sky. The PSN is much improved from the previous gen and the controller is probably the best of the generation.

As for my thoughts on XONE. I've played one. The controller isn't as good as the 360's but it plays fine. I do envy titles such as Rare Replay (I mean what an insane collection, never seen so many classic titles on one disk) and Halo 5. And I'f love to play some of my favorite 360 titles up-scaled like Gears of War Definitive and The Master Chief Collection (now that it's fixed). So I probably will end up picking up an XONE eventually but there's no rush. I also wonder what they have up their sleeve? Aside from Gears of War 4 and an inevitable Halo 6, what do they bring to the table? They don't have anything else really, unless they start making more 3rd party deals.

With how low sales for Rise of Tomb Raider are, I think Microsoft may think twice before investing in paid or timed exclusives. Rise has done nothing to bolster Xbox One sales and I don't see how the heads in charge can see it as anything but a bad investment. Third parties are releasing more and more of their games only on PS4 so they basically become PS4 exclusives by default. Other 3rd party exclusives have failed to ignite the sales charts as well. Sunset Overdrive was one of the 'bones best exclusives and it sold well below expectations. After Scalebound and the few other exclusives already announced, I don't see many more coming. If Microsoft even makes another console after the 'bone I would be surprised. I see them furthering their push into services like Xbox Live and leaving the hardware race. It has never been profitable for them.
Personally I wasn't annoyed that Tomb Raider was a timed exclusive, I was disappointed as PS4 owner of course, but I wasn't angry with Square or Crystal because at the end of the day it's a business and it appeared a sound deal. What did annoy me however was how it was handled by Crystal; dodging questions on the bottom line of the deal, leaving it open to debate; I mean it took Phil Spencer to confirm it was simply a timed deal. I think the timing of Tomb Raider's release probably attributed to its poor sales; Colin Moriarty of Kinda Funny called it all the way; they should have delayed this game until February in my mind, then it would have sold better as there's nothing that month. I do think when the came launches for PS4 and PC next year that it will sell well.

Scalebound is interesting, I feel its going to be a fantastic game but I don't think it will sell that much; don't get me wrong I'm sure it'll be a qualified success but even if it was multi-platform, I still wouldn't expect substantial sales. Platinum's action titles are for a niche market. Microsoft should have learned by now that no matter what exclusives they pay for in order to try and win over Japan, it won't work. If Lost Odyssey didn't win them the day in the last generation, then nothing will.

Let's not jump the gun here, XONE is selling well, its just not selling as much as the PS4. I mean only days ago Phil Spencer said he expects there to be an "Xbox 4" and I'd be surprised if there isn't. However I think they need to accept second place; as I said before their strength in the previous generation was their online service, their controller and their status as the platform for multiplayer shooters. PS4 has improved the online service and controller; and although it still doesn't have exclusives that compare to Gears of War or Halo (mind those franchises are running out of steam), they have accepted that fact and instead looked to frame themselves as the preferential platform for multi-platform shooters such as Call of Duty,Battlefront and Destiny.

The PS3 edged out Xbox 360 with both having in excess of 80 million units shipped. I'd personally predict the PS4 will end up at about 90 million with the XONE at about 70 million. And honestly I think Microsoft will be happy with 70 million.



gf78

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2015, 08:49:50 am »
The low sales of RoTR are probably a result of the entire TR community feeling kicked in the balls by the whole timed exclusive thing.

While it's common knowledge that Tomb Raider appeared (nearly simultaneously) on PlayStation, Saturn and the PC, it has always been viewed as a franchise that's home was PlayStation.  It pretty much was a kick in the balls that Microsoft made the exclusive deal and it was a second kick in the balls when Crystal Dynamics told angry PlayStation gamers to suck it up and play their download Lara Croft game instead. 

The low sales-at least in my mind, are due to the game releasing in a crowded timeframe up against the likes of Fallout 4.  That and the fact that Tomb Raider has never sold as well on Xbox as PlayStation.  I think Microsoft tried to bitch-slap Sony by snagging this title as a holiday exclusive and it backfired in their face.  I don't think in a million years that they expected the backlash they received and Phil Spencer had to come out and say something to save face.  Just my two cents.
Currently playing:  Ocarina of Time 3D, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe & Super Smash Bros Ultimate
Currently listening to:  Ghost, In This Moment & Kiss
Currently Watching:  Enterprise Season 2, Once Upon a Deadpool

gf78

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2015, 09:06:54 am »
Let's not jump the gun here, XONE is selling well, its just not selling as much as the PS4. I mean only days ago Phil Spencer said he expects there to be an "Xbox 4" and I'd be surprised if there isn't. However I think they need to accept second place; as I said before their strength in the previous generation was their online service, their controller and their status as the platform for multiplayer shooters. PS4 has improved the online service and controller; and although it still doesn't have exclusives that compare to Gears of War or Halo (mind those franchises are running out of steam), they have accepted that fact and instead looked to frame themselves as the preferential platform for multi-platform shooters such as Call of Duty,Battlefront and Destiny.

The PS3 edged out Xbox 360 with both having in excess of 80 million units shipped. I'd personally predict the PS4 will end up at about 90 million with the XONE at about 70 million. And honestly I think Microsoft will be happy with 70 million.

Everyone likes to use the statements by Microsoft from early 2014 about how the Xbox One is selling better than the Xbox 360 in the same span of time.  Unfortunately, early 2014 is when this stopped being the case.  There is a reason Microsoft decided around early 2014 to combine sales figures for 360 and Xbox One:  Because the Xbox One wasn't selling as well as they hoped.  There is a reason why they no longer release sales numbers at all:  The Xbox One sales are pretty abysmal.  The last "less than flaccid" sales figures we had to go on estimate that Xbox One has sold around 15 million units in two years.  While this is better than the supply constrained Xbox 360, it's far below initial estimates and selling less than half the units that Sony is selling.  In addition, sales in territories including UK, Europe and Japan are lower than they were for the 360.

Microsoft's past lucrative deals that scored them early exclusives and co-marketing for such heavy hitters as Call of Duty are over.  Third parties are shying away from even releasing their games as multiplatform and only releasing on the PS4. 

I'm going to call it now.  The Xbox One will sell between 40-45 million units in it's lifetime while the PS4 will sell between 100-110 million.  For Microsoft to sell 70 million and Sony to sell 90 million systems by the end, Xbox One would have to immediately begin selling on par with the PS4 from today on.  We know this is not the case as worldwide, the PS4 continues to widen the gap and is forecast to have a 3:1 install base over the Xbox One by the end of 2016.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 09:09:43 am by gf78 »
Currently playing:  Ocarina of Time 3D, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe & Super Smash Bros Ultimate
Currently listening to:  Ghost, In This Moment & Kiss
Currently Watching:  Enterprise Season 2, Once Upon a Deadpool

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2015, 09:58:17 am »
Let's not jump the gun here, XONE is selling well, its just not selling as much as the PS4. I mean only days ago Phil Spencer said he expects there to be an "Xbox 4" and I'd be surprised if there isn't. However I think they need to accept second place; as I said before their strength in the previous generation was their online service, their controller and their status as the platform for multiplayer shooters. PS4 has improved the online service and controller; and although it still doesn't have exclusives that compare to Gears of War or Halo (mind those franchises are running out of steam), they have accepted that fact and instead looked to frame themselves as the preferential platform for multi-platform shooters such as Call of Duty,Battlefront and Destiny.

The PS3 edged out Xbox 360 with both having in excess of 80 million units shipped. I'd personally predict the PS4 will end up at about 90 million with the XONE at about 70 million. And honestly I think Microsoft will be happy with 70 million.

Everyone likes to use the statements by Microsoft from early 2014 about how the Xbox One is selling better than the Xbox 360 in the same span of time.  Unfortunately, early 2014 is when this stopped being the case.  There is a reason Microsoft decided around early 2014 to combine sales figures for 360 and Xbox One:  Because the Xbox One wasn't selling as well as they hoped.  There is a reason why they no longer release sales numbers at all:  The Xbox One sales are pretty abysmal.  The last "less than flaccid" sales figures we had to go on estimate that Xbox One has sold around 15 million units in two years.  While this is better than the supply constrained Xbox 360, it's far below initial estimates and selling less than half the units that Sony is selling.  In addition, sales in territories including UK, Europe and Japan are lower than they were for the 360.

Microsoft's past lucrative deals that scored them early exclusives and co-marketing for such heavy hitters as Call of Duty are over.  Third parties are shying away from even releasing their games as multiplatform and only releasing on the PS4. 

I'm going to call it now.  The Xbox One will sell between 40-45 million units in it's lifetime while the PS4 will sell between 100-110 million.  For Microsoft to sell 70 million and Sony to sell 90 million systems by the end, Xbox One would have to immediately begin selling on par with the PS4 from today on.  We know this is not the case as worldwide, the PS4 continues to widen the gap and is forecast to have a 3:1 install base over the Xbox One by the end of 2016.
XONE sales have picked up since the price drop and they've even won the day on some months in this calendar year. And it will certainly win some months in 2016 as well. Perhaps I left the PS4 a little short by saying 90 million, as tbh I was simply adding up the figures from the last gen for a total of 160 million and dividing them accordingly; however it was early in the morning and I didn't factor things in such as people switching from the Wii etc. So I'd revise my figures to 110m for the PS4 and 75m for the XONE. That's roughly a 3:2 ratio which I believe is similar to the current ratio. Last I heard in terms of estimates, PS4 is roughly 13 million units ahead.

Plenty of industry experts have predicted the XONE to have healthy lifetime sales, and I really think your figures are OTT. We can't use 2014 as the basis for XONE's future; they had a horrible 2014, we all know that, they got everything wrong and had to play catch up; however they've learned from mistakes and have made many improvements in 2015. Titles such as Quantum Break, Fable Legends, Gears of War 4, Recore etc. will surely push systems in 2016 just as Titanfall and Halo 5 did.

There's also whispers from reputable people that Microsoft have paid a lot of money to secure the services of the biggest name in gaming; Hideo Kojima to create a spiritual successor to the Silent Hills project; from what I've heard they tried to secure the rights from Konami but Konami demanded too much so they told them where to go and approached Kojima themselves. All the shit storm about Konami, Kojima, the Game Awards etc. will have served as a publicity campaign for this hypothetical title that no money could buy. If this title exists, and I personally don't doubt it; well then I'd expect it to be the ultimate system mover, as every Tom, Dick and Harry will want to play it, even people who have never played an MGS in their lives will jump on the bandwagon because of all the controversy and hype.

I really don't understand all the hate towards XONE. Its a great console; its just not quite as good as the PS4 but sure in my mind we should just have all the consoles. The more the merrier. If there were ten (worthwhile) companies with systems on the market, I'd want them all :D
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 09:59:53 am by kmacdw »



gf78

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2015, 10:41:50 am »
XONE sales have picked up since the price drop and they've even won the day on some months in this calendar year. And it will certainly win some months in 2016 as well. Perhaps I left the PS4 a little short by saying 90 million, as tbh I was simply adding up the figures from the last gen for a total of 160 million and dividing them accordingly; however it was early in the morning and I didn't factor things in such as people switching from the Wii etc. So I'd revise my figures to 110m for the PS4 and 75m for the XONE. That's roughly a 3:2 ratio which I believe is similar to the current ratio. Last I heard in terms of estimates, PS4 is roughly 13 million units ahead.

Plenty of industry experts have predicted the XONE to have healthy lifetime sales, and I really think your figures are OTT. We can't use 2014 as the basis for XONE's future; they had a horrible 2014, we all know that, they got everything wrong and had to play catch up; however they've learned from mistakes and have made many improvements in 2015. Titles such as Quantum Break, Fable Legends, Gears of War 4, Recore etc. will surely push systems in 2016 just as Titanfall and Halo 5 did.

There's also whispers from reputable people that Microsoft have paid a lot of money to secure the services of the biggest name in gaming; Hideo Kojima to create a spiritual successor to the Silent Hills project; from what I've heard they tried to secure the rights from Konami but Konami demanded too much so they told them where to go and approached Kojima themselves. All the shit storm about Konami, Kojima, the Game Awards etc. will have served as a publicity campaign for this hypothetical title that no money could buy. If this title exists, and I personally don't doubt it; well then I'd expect it to be the ultimate system mover, as every Tom, Dick and Harry will want to play it, even people who have never played an MGS in their lives will jump on the bandwagon because of all the controversy and hype.

I really don't understand all the hate towards XONE. Its a great console; its just not quite as good as the PS4 but sure in my mind we should just have all the consoles. The more the merrier. If there were ten (worthwhile) companies with systems on the market, I'd want them all :D

The only "wins" for a few months for Xbox One were in the US as reported by NPD, a tracking firm.  PS4 still slaughtered them outright in worldwide sales.  In fact, there hasn't been a single month of the 25 months these two consoles have been on the market that Xbox One has outsold the PS4 worldwide.  So in reality, Xbox One has won zero months in the sales war.

If Xbox One had a horrible 2014, what do you call this year?  At least in 2014 they managed bragging rights for top US sales in November and December.  They were beaten in November and December looks to play out the same way.  Titanfall didn't make a blip on the radar in Xbox One sales and while Halo 5 pushed Xbox One sales slightly over PS4 in October, the series has experienced it's lowest sales in it's history.  2015 has also seen Microsoft resort to a flat-out refusal to release sales figures for the Xbox One.  Given Microsoft's past as the biggest braggers when they scored an NPD sales victory for a month, their silence speaks volumes as to the state of the Xbox One's sales performance.

The entire Silent Hills/Kojima thing is just what it is:  A rumor.  Given Microsoft's consistent failures with third party exclusives and just about anything outside the shooter/racing genre, do you really believe they will court a developer who is distinctly Japanese for a platform where Japanese games tend to sell poorly?  If anything, I see Kojima releasing a game for the PS4. 

The "hate" directed toward Microsoft is because they have a consistent pattern of screwing the consumer.  It's been thoroughly discussed here.  Scrapping the original Xbox after just four years.  Up to 50% failure rate on the 360 because they rushed it to market to beat Sony.  Forcing Kinect on gamers.  NSA spying.  Draconian DRM policies they tried to implement.  Telling gamers without an internet connection to go buy a 360 and basically STFU.  Years of paid, timed exclusives depriving gamers on other systems content.  Scuttling all of their best studios like FASA, Ensemble, Digital Anvil, Bizarre Creations....the list goes on and on.  Then they buy up Rare and turn them into a joke, making crap like Kinect Sports and goofy looking avatars for your home screen.

Microsoft has been a detriment and a pox on gaming.  They introduces the world to the "pay to play" model where you are charged for online access.  They locked digital services like Netflix behind a paywall.  They not only allowed but encouraged the proliferation of paid DLC and microtransactions.  Look at the Forza games!  They cut the number of cars and tracks the games ship with and to get everything now, you literally have to spend a couple hundred dollars.  It all boils down to greed.
Currently playing:  Ocarina of Time 3D, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe & Super Smash Bros Ultimate
Currently listening to:  Ghost, In This Moment & Kiss
Currently Watching:  Enterprise Season 2, Once Upon a Deadpool

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2015, 11:44:44 am »
XONE sales have picked up since the price drop and they've even won the day on some months in this calendar year. And it will certainly win some months in 2016 as well. Perhaps I left the PS4 a little short by saying 90 million, as tbh I was simply adding up the figures from the last gen for a total of 160 million and dividing them accordingly; however it was early in the morning and I didn't factor things in such as people switching from the Wii etc. So I'd revise my figures to 110m for the PS4 and 75m for the XONE. That's roughly a 3:2 ratio which I believe is similar to the current ratio. Last I heard in terms of estimates, PS4 is roughly 13 million units ahead.

Plenty of industry experts have predicted the XONE to have healthy lifetime sales, and I really think your figures are OTT. We can't use 2014 as the basis for XONE's future; they had a horrible 2014, we all know that, they got everything wrong and had to play catch up; however they've learned from mistakes and have made many improvements in 2015. Titles such as Quantum Break, Fable Legends, Gears of War 4, Recore etc. will surely push systems in 2016 just as Titanfall and Halo 5 did.

There's also whispers from reputable people that Microsoft have paid a lot of money to secure the services of the biggest name in gaming; Hideo Kojima to create a spiritual successor to the Silent Hills project; from what I've heard they tried to secure the rights from Konami but Konami demanded too much so they told them where to go and approached Kojima themselves. All the shit storm about Konami, Kojima, the Game Awards etc. will have served as a publicity campaign for this hypothetical title that no money could buy. If this title exists, and I personally don't doubt it; well then I'd expect it to be the ultimate system mover, as every Tom, Dick and Harry will want to play it, even people who have never played an MGS in their lives will jump on the bandwagon because of all the controversy and hype.

I really don't understand all the hate towards XONE. Its a great console; its just not quite as good as the PS4 but sure in my mind we should just have all the consoles. The more the merrier. If there were ten (worthwhile) companies with systems on the market, I'd want them all :D

The only "wins" for a few months for Xbox One were in the US as reported by NPD, a tracking firm.  PS4 still slaughtered them outright in worldwide sales.  In fact, there hasn't been a single month of the 25 months these two consoles have been on the market that Xbox One has outsold the PS4 worldwide.  So in reality, Xbox One has won zero months in the sales war.

If Xbox One had a horrible 2014, what do you call this year?  At least in 2014 they managed bragging rights for top US sales in November and December.  They were beaten in November and December looks to play out the same way.  Titanfall didn't make a blip on the radar in Xbox One sales and while Halo 5 pushed Xbox One sales slightly over PS4 in October, the series has experienced it's lowest sales in it's history.  2015 has also seen Microsoft resort to a flat-out refusal to release sales figures for the Xbox One.  Given Microsoft's past as the biggest braggers when they scored an NPD sales victory for a month, their silence speaks volumes as to the state of the Xbox One's sales performance.

The entire Silent Hills/Kojima thing is just what it is:  A rumor.  Given Microsoft's consistent failures with third party exclusives and just about anything outside the shooter/racing genre, do you really believe they will court a developer who is distinctly Japanese for a platform where Japanese games tend to sell poorly?  If anything, I see Kojima releasing a game for the PS4. 

The "hate" directed toward Microsoft is because they have a consistent pattern of screwing the consumer.  It's been thoroughly discussed here.  Scrapping the original Xbox after just four years.  Up to 50% failure rate on the 360 because they rushed it to market to beat Sony.  Forcing Kinect on gamers.  NSA spying.  Draconian DRM policies they tried to implement.  Telling gamers without an internet connection to go buy a 360 and basically STFU.  Years of paid, timed exclusives depriving gamers on other systems content.  Scuttling all of their best studios like FASA, Ensemble, Digital Anvil, Bizarre Creations....the list goes on and on.  Then they buy up Rare and turn them into a joke, making crap like Kinect Sports and goofy looking avatars for your home screen.

Microsoft has been a detriment and a pox on gaming.  They introduces the world to the "pay to play" model where you are charged for online access.  They locked digital services like Netflix behind a paywall.  They not only allowed but encouraged the proliferation of paid DLC and microtransactions.  Look at the Forza games!  They cut the number of cars and tracks the games ship with and to get everything now, you literally have to spend a couple hundred dollars.  It all boils down to greed.
We all know the Xbox 360 was a technical mess and had a high failure rate; however I know people who went with he PS3 as their primary console and went through just as many systems as I did. The PS3 maybe had a slightly lower fail rate but I honestly doubt there was a big difference; if there was then clearly I just live among unlucky people.

Paid, timed exclusives work both ways; you can't give out about MS doing it, yet turn a blind eye to Sony; what about Rocket League? One of the most popular titles of 2015, XONE owners have to wait until next year to play it. I don't think timed exclusives is something we can complain about; this is a business, things like exclusives (timed or permanent) and bundles help push systems, so they're an inevitability. Timed exclusives existed long before Microsoft began to use them as a tool. As I said before I don't mind exclusives being timed, I just don't like when publishers are cloak and dagger about it. Tomb Raider is one such example; however it wasn't the first, Resident Evil 4 springs to mind, that moved quite a few Gamecubes, only to be available on PS2 eventually. Like I said Phil Spencer was very honest about it, so I commend that.

We all have our qualms with how publishers handle certain studios. Perhaps Rare serve as the greatest example; however they also serve as an example of how MS learns from mistakes. It appears that Rare are finally being allowed to create once again. So it'll be interesting to see how things go with their next title.

At least Forza worked. What about the mess that was Driveclub? "Driveclub free to all PS Plus members"....."Actually it'll be a free version, you'll have to pay to upgrade to the full version if you like it"........"Sorry we can't offer you your free version yet but you're welcome to buy the full version"........"Actually it was only temporary, you snooze you lose". So yeah we were treated temporarily, after the title had launched, to a glorified demo of a game that wasn't very good to begin with. Thanks Sony you're the greatest. If you're going to tar and feather Microsoft, then please don't pull any punches with Sony. Personally I loved Forza 2 but I'd never been a big fan of racers, and when Forza 3 launched, I couldn't get into it. However I have heard of content annually shifting more off disk and behind a pay wall; however that's more a trend of the industry as a whole, as opposed to just Microsoft.

Personally I despise DLC; my opinion on that won't change. My belief is that any added maps or missions that a developer wishes to add should be done so as a free gift to the gamer. An expansion pack is something different entirely; if it adds a new campaign, then of course you can charge for it; however an expansion has to be meaty enough to warrant the title. Charging 30 dollars for an expansion that adds 20+ hours of gameplay to a 60 hour game, is fine by me. However for 5 hours, it's not on; I mean plenty of games are too short to begin with these days, so I'd ask why weren't those five hours in the game to begin with? However that's an entirely different topic altogether and one I could talk about all day.

As for which months they won; from what I've read, Titanfall won them March and Halo won them October; apparently Rare Replay and Gears of War increased sales as well. It's really a no brainer that good exclusives can push systems. It's a shame really that MS messed up the XONE's announcement so badly. As I honestly feel had they announced 1.  a Kinect free option 2. no DRM and 3. backwards compatibility; that we'd be looking at a much tighter race atm. And a much tighter race would benefit us the gamer, above the companies.How you ask? Well the tighter the race, the more Sony would be pushed to offer us what we want. Name changes, backwards compatibility, PSOne classics being multi-buy; the sky would be the limit if Sony had that extra push. Though you never know; Sony really stuffed up the start of the last gen and yet made up massive ground; I'd hope MS can do something similar as we move towards the middle of these consoles' life cycles. And don't forget the NX, hopefully it takes its fair share of the pie. As honestly a tight race is good for the gamer.

I already made it clear that some decisions made by MS in the past weren't sound; they had to back pedal and some people paid the ultimate price for that with some reshuffles at the top. However since Phil came to the helm, they've moved forward well. He's a likable guy; even Colin Moriarty and Greg Miller are often full of praise for him, and they're arguably the biggest PS fanboys in the industry, they had a panel at PSX for christ sake. The DRM stuff was laughable. The idea of having to have a Kinect put me off the system tbh, it wasn't until they announced they would offer the option of having a system without it that I personally decided I'd eventually pick one up. Making a mistake is one thing but admitting that mistakes and changing things is another. The past matters little, the future is what counts.

I think there's no smoke without fire; the Silent Hills coming to XONE rumor was such a bizarre one, that it seemed too crazy for even the craziest person to make up, so I had my suspicions. So when Adam Kovic was recently a guest on Kinda Funny and told them that there's whispers that Kojima has signed on with Microsoft for a spiritual successor to the project I wasn't surprised. Let's be honest here; we may paint Kojima as some messiah of the industry who just loves to create content for the gamer. However at the end of the day he is a man; if MS drive a truckload of money up to his front door and request he make them a game, then its doubtful he'd turn them down. It doesn't stop him signing a similar deal with Sony for a stealth game as a successor to MGS perhaps. Look at Inafune, he's whoring himself out, attaching himself to every project possible. He's making that cash, cash money. Fair play to him; I say Kojima get out there and make yourself your fortune. His name is gold-dust in the industry atm. If I was Nintendo, MS and Sony; I'd get his name attached to an exclusive for each system; suddenly a lot more people would want to have one of each console. I can picture it now; Kojima sitting in an ivory tower with Phil, Reggie and Shuhei laughing at all us pitiful gamers clamoring for their systems :D Thats the reality; one can't paint Microsoft as some evil dark lord and Sony as a white night; we're all just pawns to each of them, they want our money first and foremost. Its a business.

Again I say it; the more consoles, the merrier.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 11:50:19 am by kmacdw »



gf78

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2015, 12:07:33 pm »
We all know the Xbox 360 was a technical mess and had a high failure rate; however I know people who went with he PS3 as their primary console and went through just as many systems as I did. The PS3 maybe had a slightly lower fail rate but I honestly doubt there was a big difference; if there was then clearly I just live among unlucky people.

Paid, timed exclusives work both ways; you can't give out about MS doing it, yet turn a blind eye to Sony; what about Rocket League? One of the most popular titles of 2015, XONE owners have to wait until next year to play it. I don't think timed exclusives is something we can complain about; this is a business, things like exclusives (timed or permanent) and bundles help push systems, so they're an inevitability. Timed exclusives existed long before Microsoft began to use them as a tool. As I said before I don't mind exclusives being timed, I just don't like when publishers are cloak and dagger about it. Tomb Raider is one such example; however it wasn't the first, Resident Evil 4 springs to mind, that moved quite a few Gamecubes, only to be available on PS2 eventually. Like I said Phil Spencer was very honest about it, so I commend that.

We all have our qualms with how publishers handle certain studios. Perhaps Rare serve as the greatest example; however they also serve as an example of how MS learns from mistakes. It appears that Rare are finally being allowed to create once again. So it'll be interesting to see how things go with their next title.

At least Forza worked. What about the mess that was Driveclub? "Driveclub free to all PS Plus members"....."Actually it'll be a free version, you'll have to pay to upgrade to the full version if you like it"........"Sorry we can't offer you your free version yet but you're welcome to buy the full version"........"Actually it was only temporary, you snooze you lose". So yeah we were treated temporarily, after the title had launched, to a glorified demo of a game that wasn't very good to begin with. Thanks Sony you're the greatest. If you're going to tar and feather Microsoft, then please don't pull any punches with Sony. Personally I loved Forza 2 but I'd never been a big fan of racers, and when Forza 3 launched, I couldn't get into it. However I have heard of content annually shifting more off disk and behind a pay wall; however that's more a trend of the industry as a whole, as opposed to just Microsoft.

Personally I despise DLC; my opinion on that won't change. My belief is that any added maps or missions that a developer wishes to add should be done so as a free gift to the gamer. An expansion pack is something different entirely; if it adds a new campaign, then of course you can charge for it; however an expansion has to be meaty enough to warrant the title. Charging 30 dollars for an expansion that adds 20+ hours of gameplay to a 60 hour game, is fine by me. However for 5 hours, it's not on; I mean plenty of games are too short to begin with these days, so I'd ask why weren't those five hours in the game to begin with? However that's an entirely different topic altogether and one I could talk about all day.

As for which months they won; from what I read, Titanfall won them March and Halo won them October. Its really a no brainer that good exclusives can push systems. its a shame really that MS messed up the XONE's announcement so badly. As I honestly feel had they announced 1.  a Kinect free option 2. no DRM and 3. backwards compatibility; that we'd be looking at a much tighter race atm. And a much tighter race would benefit us the gamer, above the companies.How you ask? Well the tighter the race, the more Sony would be pushed to offer us what we want. Name changes, backwards compatibility, PSOne classics being multi-buy; the sky would be the limit if Sony had that extra push. Though you never know; Sony really stuffed up the start of the last gen and yet made up massive ground; I'd hope MS can do something similar as we move towards the middle of these consoles' life cycles. And don't forget the NX, hopefully it takes its fair share of the pie. As honestly a tight race is good for the gamer.

I already made it clear that some decisions made by MS in the past weren't sound; they had to back pedal and some people paid the ultimate price for that with some reshuffles at the top. However since Phil came to the helm, they've moved forward well. He's a likable guy; even Colin Moriarty and Greg Miller are often full of praise for him, and they're arguably the biggest PS fanboys in the industry, they had a panel at PSX for christ sake. The DRM stuff was laughable. The idea of having to have a Kinect put me off the system tbh, it wasn't until they announced they would offer the option of having a system without it that I personally decided I'd eventually pick one up. Making a mistake is one thing but admitting that mistakes and changing things is another. The past matters little, the future is what counts.

I think there's no smoke without fire; the Silent Hills coming to XONE rumor was such a bizarre one, that it seemed too crazy for even the craziest person to make up, so I had my suspicions. So when Adam Kovic was recently a guest on Kinda Funny and told them that there's whispers that Kojima has signed on with Microsoft for a spiritual successor to the project I wasn't surprised. Let's be honest here; we may paint Kojima as some messiah of the industry who just loves to create content for the gamer. However at the end of the day he is a man; if MS drive a truckload of money up to his front door and request he make them a game, then its doubtful he'd turn them down. It doesn't stop him signing a similar deal with Sony for a stealth game as a successor to MGS perhaps. Look at Inafune, he's whoring himself out, attaching himself to every project possible. He's making that cash, cash money. Fair play to him; I say Kojima get out there and make yourself your fortune. His name is gold-dust in the industry atm. If I was Nintendo, MS and Sony; I'd get his name attached to an exclusive for each system; suddenly a lot more people would want to have one of each console. I can picture it now; Kojima sitting in an ivory tower with Phil, Reggie and Shuhei laughing at all us pitiful gamers clamoring for their systems :D Thats the reality; one can't paint Microsoft as some evil dark lord and Sony as a white night; we're all just pawns to each of them, they want our money first and foremost. Its a business.

Again I say it; the more consoles, the merrier.

PS3 hardware failure rates peaked at about 10%.  Xbox 360 peaked at over 50%.  Huge, huge difference.

The only reason Phil Spencer was forthcoming about the exclusive period for Rise of Tomb Raider is because the announcement generated a huge shitstorm and backfired in Microsoft's face.  They believed the exclusive would be a coup, but instead they suffered the wrath of disgruntled fanboys.

Halo 5 and Black Friday/holiday months are the only ones Microsoft have won.  Titanfall was expected to be a huge bump for them and everyone was surprised when it failed to catapult MS to the top that month.  Sony's price drop this year and subsequent holiday sales that put them on even ground with Microsoft has stopped them dead in their tracks. 

I don't think Sony is a white knight.  They like Microsoft are a global corporation and the end goal is to make money and lots of it.  But even at Sony's most arrogant when they still let Ken Kutaragi run his pie hole, they never acted like Don Mattrick and Microsoft who basically told gamers if they don't like it, then suck their balls.  Microsoft's "admitting mistakes" isn't coming from a change of heart.  It's because they reaped their just deserts for trying to screw the consumer over.  Given the opportunity, Microsoft would absolutely try to pull their nonsense again. 

As for Forza and DriveClub, the launch of DriveClub was a disaster.  But Sony has consistently added updates, free content and more and continues to improve the game.  There may be about $20 of DLC for DriveClub.  It's the first game in perhaps a series or it may never receive a sequel.  Forza on the other hand is in it's sixth iteration.  They have scaled back the number of cars and tracks to sell them for ludicrous prices at a later time.  They are even so "generous" that they offer an overpriced season pass.  Even if you bought DriveClub at launch for $60 and bought the $20 in DLC, that's $80.  How much would it cost to get everything for Forza?  $150?  $200?  While Sony has continued to support DriveClub, Microsoft just said a big FU and released yet another Forza game in less than two years, not to mention that Forza Horizon "every other year" nonsense. 

The fact is that all the shittiest policies and bullcrap that we have to deal with in gaming now stemmed from Microsoft and EA.  Small wonder that they work together so much and have that EA Access crap.  And aside from what I listed as my disdain for Microsoft, they really don't have much in the way of games that I care for.  Certainly not enough to buy their console.  For all their "contributions" to gaming, Microsoft can kiss my gouch.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 12:11:43 pm by gf78 »
Currently playing:  Ocarina of Time 3D, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe & Super Smash Bros Ultimate
Currently listening to:  Ghost, In This Moment & Kiss
Currently Watching:  Enterprise Season 2, Once Upon a Deadpool

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2015, 12:17:51 pm »
We all know the Xbox 360 was a technical mess and had a high failure rate; however I know people who went with he PS3 as their primary console and went through just as many systems as I did. The PS3 maybe had a slightly lower fail rate but I honestly doubt there was a big difference; if there was then clearly I just live among unlucky people.

Paid, timed exclusives work both ways; you can't give out about MS doing it, yet turn a blind eye to Sony; what about Rocket League? One of the most popular titles of 2015, XONE owners have to wait until next year to play it. I don't think timed exclusives is something we can complain about; this is a business, things like exclusives (timed or permanent) and bundles help push systems, so they're an inevitability. Timed exclusives existed long before Microsoft began to use them as a tool. As I said before I don't mind exclusives being timed, I just don't like when publishers are cloak and dagger about it. Tomb Raider is one such example; however it wasn't the first, Resident Evil 4 springs to mind, that moved quite a few Gamecubes, only to be available on PS2 eventually. Like I said Phil Spencer was very honest about it, so I commend that.

We all have our qualms with how publishers handle certain studios. Perhaps Rare serve as the greatest example; however they also serve as an example of how MS learns from mistakes. It appears that Rare are finally being allowed to create once again. So it'll be interesting to see how things go with their next title.

At least Forza worked. What about the mess that was Driveclub? "Driveclub free to all PS Plus members"....."Actually it'll be a free version, you'll have to pay to upgrade to the full version if you like it"........"Sorry we can't offer you your free version yet but you're welcome to buy the full version"........"Actually it was only temporary, you snooze you lose". So yeah we were treated temporarily, after the title had launched, to a glorified demo of a game that wasn't very good to begin with. Thanks Sony you're the greatest. If you're going to tar and feather Microsoft, then please don't pull any punches with Sony. Personally I loved Forza 2 but I'd never been a big fan of racers, and when Forza 3 launched, I couldn't get into it. However I have heard of content annually shifting more off disk and behind a pay wall; however that's more a trend of the industry as a whole, as opposed to just Microsoft.

Personally I despise DLC; my opinion on that won't change. My belief is that any added maps or missions that a developer wishes to add should be done so as a free gift to the gamer. An expansion pack is something different entirely; if it adds a new campaign, then of course you can charge for it; however an expansion has to be meaty enough to warrant the title. Charging 30 dollars for an expansion that adds 20+ hours of gameplay to a 60 hour game, is fine by me. However for 5 hours, it's not on; I mean plenty of games are too short to begin with these days, so I'd ask why weren't those five hours in the game to begin with? However that's an entirely different topic altogether and one I could talk about all day.

As for which months they won; from what I read, Titanfall won them March and Halo won them October. Its really a no brainer that good exclusives can push systems. its a shame really that MS messed up the XONE's announcement so badly. As I honestly feel had they announced 1.  a Kinect free option 2. no DRM and 3. backwards compatibility; that we'd be looking at a much tighter race atm. And a much tighter race would benefit us the gamer, above the companies.How you ask? Well the tighter the race, the more Sony would be pushed to offer us what we want. Name changes, backwards compatibility, PSOne classics being multi-buy; the sky would be the limit if Sony had that extra push. Though you never know; Sony really stuffed up the start of the last gen and yet made up massive ground; I'd hope MS can do something similar as we move towards the middle of these consoles' life cycles. And don't forget the NX, hopefully it takes its fair share of the pie. As honestly a tight race is good for the gamer.

I already made it clear that some decisions made by MS in the past weren't sound; they had to back pedal and some people paid the ultimate price for that with some reshuffles at the top. However since Phil came to the helm, they've moved forward well. He's a likable guy; even Colin Moriarty and Greg Miller are often full of praise for him, and they're arguably the biggest PS fanboys in the industry, they had a panel at PSX for christ sake. The DRM stuff was laughable. The idea of having to have a Kinect put me off the system tbh, it wasn't until they announced they would offer the option of having a system without it that I personally decided I'd eventually pick one up. Making a mistake is one thing but admitting that mistakes and changing things is another. The past matters little, the future is what counts.

I think there's no smoke without fire; the Silent Hills coming to XONE rumor was such a bizarre one, that it seemed too crazy for even the craziest person to make up, so I had my suspicions. So when Adam Kovic was recently a guest on Kinda Funny and told them that there's whispers that Kojima has signed on with Microsoft for a spiritual successor to the project I wasn't surprised. Let's be honest here; we may paint Kojima as some messiah of the industry who just loves to create content for the gamer. However at the end of the day he is a man; if MS drive a truckload of money up to his front door and request he make them a game, then its doubtful he'd turn them down. It doesn't stop him signing a similar deal with Sony for a stealth game as a successor to MGS perhaps. Look at Inafune, he's whoring himself out, attaching himself to every project possible. He's making that cash, cash money. Fair play to him; I say Kojima get out there and make yourself your fortune. His name is gold-dust in the industry atm. If I was Nintendo, MS and Sony; I'd get his name attached to an exclusive for each system; suddenly a lot more people would want to have one of each console. I can picture it now; Kojima sitting in an ivory tower with Phil, Reggie and Shuhei laughing at all us pitiful gamers clamoring for their systems :D Thats the reality; one can't paint Microsoft as some evil dark lord and Sony as a white night; we're all just pawns to each of them, they want our money first and foremost. Its a business.

Again I say it; the more consoles, the merrier.

PS3 hardware failure rates peaked at about 10%.  Xbox 360 peaked at over 50%.  Huge, huge difference.

The only reason Phil Spencer was forthcoming about the exclusive period for Rise of Tomb Raider is because the announcement generated a huge shitstorm and backfired in Microsoft's face.  They believed the exclusive would be a coup, but instead they suffered the wrath of disgruntled fanboys.

Halo 5 and Black Friday/holiday months are the only ones Microsoft have won.  Titanfall was expected to be a huge bump for them and everyone was surprised when it failed to catapult MS to the top that month.  Sony's price drop this year and subsequent holiday sales that put them on even ground with Microsoft has stopped them dead in their tracks. 

I don't think Sony is a white knight.  They like Microsoft are a global corporation and the end goal is to make money and lots of it.  But even at Sony's most arrogant when they still let Ken Kutaragi run his pie hole, they never acted like Don Mattrick and Microsoft who basically told gamers if they don't like it, then suck their balls.  Microsoft's "admitting mistakes" isn't coming from a change of heart.  It's because they reaped their just deserts for trying to screw the consumer over.  Given the opportunity, Microsoft would absolutely try to pull their nonsense again. 

As for Forza and DriveClub, the launch of DriveClub was a disaster.  But Sony has consistently added updates, free content and more and continues to improve the game.  There may be about $20 of DLC for DriveClub.  It's the first game in perhaps a series or it may never receive a sequel.  Forza on the other hand is in it's sixth iteration.  They have scaled back the number of cars and tracks to sell them for ludicrous prices at a later time.  They are even so "generous" that they offer an overpriced season pass.  Even if you bought DriveClub at launch for $60 and bought the $20 in DLC, that's $80.  How much would it cost to get everything for Forza?  $150?  $200?  While Sony has continued to support DriveClub, Microsoft just said a big FU and released yet another Forza game in less than two years, not to mention that Forza Horizon "every other year" nonsense. 

The fact is that all the shittiest policies and bullcrap that we have to deal with in gaming now stemmed from Microsoft and EA.  Small wonder that they work together so much and have that EA Access crap.  And aside from what I listed as my disdain for Microsoft, they really don't have much in the way of games that I care for.  Certainly not enough to buy their console.  For all their "contributions" to gaming, Microsoft can kiss my gouch.
Yes well that's your choice; however what about your fellow gamers? What about people like me who some of their fondest memories in gaming came when they played Gears of War religiously? I get the impression you'll laugh maniacally if Microsoft was to pull out of the race. However would you spare a thought for those who would be sad to see them go?

I honestly thought the last generation was the best. You had three distinct consoles. The Xbox 360 was the 'multiplayer e-sports console'. The Wii was 'the family console'. And the PS3 was the 'proud vessel of the Japanese'. I had my 360 for playing shooters, my PS3 for playing JRPGs and my Wii for having some fun with my family. I'd like to think there was something for everyone; and if I was supreme leader of the universe :P That would be the situation forever more.



gf78

Re: Playstation 4 Two Years Later - Thoughts and Discussion
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2015, 12:43:43 pm »
Yes well that's your choice; however what about your fellow gamers? What about people like me who some of their fondest memories in gaming came when they played Gears of War religiously? I get the impression you'll laugh maniacally if Microsoft was to pull out of the race. However would you spare a thought for those who would be sad to see them go?

I honestly thought the last generation was the best. You had three distinct consoles. The Xbox 360 was the 'multiplayer e-sports console'. The Wii was 'the family console'. And the PS3 was the 'proud vessel of the Japanese'. I had my 360 for playing shooters, my PS3 for playing JRPGs and my Wii for having some fun with my family. I'd like to think there was something for everyone; and if I was supreme leader of the universe :P That would be the situation forever more.
[/quote]

I'm not poo-pooing your enjoyment of your 360.  I owned both an original Xbox from shortly after it's launch and the same for the Xbox 360.  I enjoyed a helluva lot of Halo, Fable, Forza, Gears and others that were only on Xbox.  Microsoft is the one who decided to continue to implement crap policies.  They got caught at it like a kid with their hand in the cookie jar or a cheating spouse out getting some nookie  on the side.  And just the same, I guarantee they will try it again.  I have zero use for them and will continue to enjoy gaming as long as Sony and Nintendo are around.
Currently playing:  Ocarina of Time 3D, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe & Super Smash Bros Ultimate
Currently listening to:  Ghost, In This Moment & Kiss
Currently Watching:  Enterprise Season 2, Once Upon a Deadpool