Author Topic: Error Listings and Rejected Edits 2025  (Read 5012 times)

dhaabi

Re: Error Listings and Rejected Edits 2025
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2025, 10:00:46 am »
This is because only the contents are being described as l'édition spéciale and not the actual item itself.

The wording implies that the actual item is the named edition.

But using item number descriptors for all of the Heavy Rain releases in the EU category would be fine also.

All of the other regional entries for this item are straightforward in mentioning Special Edition. If 280949 is to use Édition Spéciale, then the style guide should be updated to reflect this grammar rule. Otherwise, all the regional entries will need to adopt a Sony serial descriptor which may be difficult to confirm for some.

tripredacus

Re: Error Listings and Rejected Edits 2025
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2025, 10:47:45 am »
I'm thinking I can re-use the current "Japanese loan words" post and make it more about various languages instead.

Re: Error Listings and Rejected Edits 2025
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2025, 12:51:34 pm »
All of the other regional entries for this item are straightforward in mentioning Special Edition.

That is precisely the reason why I originally submitted it as “Special Edition [FR]”.

dhaabi

Re: Error Listings and Rejected Edits 2025
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2025, 09:33:43 pm »
All of the other regional entries for this item are straightforward in mentioning Special Edition.

That is precisely the reason why I originally submitted it as “Special Edition [FR]”.

I understand why you originally submitted - Special Edition [FR], but that is incorrect formatting as that term does not appear anywhere on the item's packaging. Only in instances of non-Latin languages should a translation be used, like with what was done for Heavy Rain - Special Edition [RU].

I'm thinking I can re-use the current "Japanese loan words" post and make it more about various languages instead.

Repurposing the post with that goal would be beneficial. Now that I think about it, one other specific aspect of French comes to mind, though I'm not sure what other language information for French or for any other language would be worth highlighting.

Re: Error Listings and Rejected Edits 2025
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2025, 02:43:33 am »
I understand that. Nonetheless, the game, even in its special edition, is just named “Heavy Rain”. Whatever appears on the box that discriminates it from the standard edition does not change the fact that, for this game, the special edition does not have a different title than the standard one.

Forcing yourselves to identify a common bit of text common, from one language to another, to all regional variants of such entries, all the while disregarding concerned regions natives’ inputs in the process until addressed over days-long discussions on the forum, seems a rather clunky process in my humble opinion, if not counter-productive.

Then, why not harmonising to a fairly easier solution to implement (i.e. “ - Special Edition [TLD]” everywhere)? (again, only for this kind of case where the non-standard edition sports the exact same title as the standard one). If the problem is that does not abide the rules, maybe we should take that as a hint that said rules may be ill-fitted to some unplanned cases, and might benefit being updated.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2025, 02:47:35 am by bobi »

tripredacus

Re: Error Listings and Rejected Edits 2025
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2025, 09:27:00 am »
Then, why not harmonising to a fairly easier solution to implement (i.e. “ - Special Edition [TLD]” everywhere)?

The actual correct way that things should be named is using the original text entirely. Meaning no translations or transliterations and using the native text for non-Latin languages. And then apply language filters onto the item that can be selected by the user. However, we do not currently have this luxury so we needed to create rules that would apply to all items in all cases, to the best of our ability. The result is that there will be instances where the rules will make sense for 99% of things and not for a minorty. We'll have to deal with that until we come up with a better solution that covers all items. Because while we can put little bits of information into the Adv Guide about certain languages, we cannot allow the DB to get to a point where certain portions are only understood by people from a certain region. We already have that with the rest of the internet!

If you or any other native speakers (of any language) want us to add any particulars to the new language post in the Adv Guide, you can post about it here:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,10891.0.html

Re: Error Listings and Rejected Edits 2025
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2025, 10:30:14 am »

The actual correct way that things should be named is using the original text entirely. Meaning no translations or transliterations and using the native text for non-Latin languages. And then apply language filters onto the item that can be selected by the user. However, we do not currently have this luxury so we needed to create rules that would apply to all items in all cases, to the best of our ability. The result is that there will be instances where the rules will make sense for 99% of things and not for a minorty. We'll have to deal with that until we come up with a better solution that covers all items. Because while we can put little bits of information into the Adv Guide about certain languages, we cannot allow the DB to get to a point where certain portions are only understood by people from a certain region. We already have that with the rest of the internet!

If you or any other native speakers (of any language) want us to add any particulars to the new language post in the Adv Guide, you can post about it here:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,10891.0.html



What do you mean the entire text entirely?
The entire title? Then in this case it’s just Heavy Rain, and remains the need to differentiate from the standard edition.
The entire text making it to the front box? Then in this case it is still just Heavy Rain, so nothing’s solved.
The title as readable from the case’s edge? Then again, just Heavy Rain…

On contrary to other games, absolutely nothing but the cardboard box, the voucher and the included Origami distinguishes this non-standard edition from the standard one.
From there, and if you strive for accessibility regardless of language, I am perfectly fine with using english as a lingua franca, again only when nothing in the title nor on the front or edge of the case appears that helps distinguish an edition from another, for a same (sub)region (I am certainly not questionning the rules for the 99% of things where no such problem appears, neither for the examples cited earlier by dhaabi, where a specifying text for the edition appears on the front).

Wrapping up info collected until then, the non-standard edition of Heavy Rain targetting France market is inconsistently described as the Édition Spéciale on the back cover, Édition Collector on the voucher, and none of these made it to the front nor the edge of the case.
Quite possibly other, if not all, non-standard european editions of the game share the same inconsistency. Crawling through ebay listings to check what can be put in a language not the one of the website, thus that cannot be expected to be understood by everyone here, seems like going quite the opposite as what said you’d like to achieve.
Then, why not make a single choice, sticking to english (Special Edition, Collector’s Edition, Non-standard Edition, etc.) and apply it consistently among all european non-standard editions of the game, accompanied with a TLD? That seems fairly understandable and in line with how a lot of items are already identified in the database.

tripredacus

Re: Error Listings and Rejected Edits 2025
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2025, 10:56:51 am »
We use the actual text on the item because we do not want anyone to have to refer to some other website to know what an item is. A person should be able to look at the item they have in hand, and look at the options on our site, and without any outside knowledge, be able to determine which item they have. This means people who happen to get a game outside of their region doesn't need to know the intricacies of that country's distribution system whenever the item was originally sold, doesn't need to know if the thing was originally sold on some website under a different name or on a website that no longer exists, doesn't need to know the original language differs between countries or anything like that.

If someone gets a foreign game in a lot, or at a garage sale or however else, they take that game and look it up on here and that's it. That is why we use the actual text from the item and not what the regional collectors call it or what the original sales website (if it even still exists) called it or anything like that. We do document those other names and they can be put into alt-text and/or description.

What do you mean the entire text entirely?

Example, this entry, the item title would be 機動戦艦ナデシコ ~やっぱり最後は「愛が勝つ」?~
https://vgcollect.com/item/45332
The original idea was to have multiple name fields. Actual name (like above), common name, other names if applicable. Then let the user determine which name they see in what context. If this system were applied to this Heavy Rain example, then there would be multiple names attached to it, such as the one on the entry now, the translated name (like in your post) and the other name (like on the voucher). If then you had the ability to choose which name type appears, then you could see the database the way you wanted and others can see it the way they wanted.

Re: Error Listings and Rejected Edits 2025
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2025, 04:02:56 am »


What do you mean the entire text entirely?


Example, this entry, the item title would be 機動戦艦ナデシコ ~やっぱり最後は「愛が勝つ」?~
https://vgcollect.com/item/45332


Thanks for the example, from that I reckon that entry we originally discussed has to be named “Heavy Rain”, and that’s it about mandatory content in the item’s title. Everything more is just there to distinguish it from the standard edition, right?

That leads us to the original questions, to which our discussions have me add a third:
1. Can the distinction go with “ - Édition Spéciale” instead of “ - L’Édition Spéciale”?
2. If so, will it be accepted if I submit a change accordingly?
3. If not, what would be better? “ - Special Edition [FR]”? “ (BCES 00797/S)”? Keeping “ - L’Édition Spéciale” (this one I propose out of complete fairness, but I still deem it wrong)?

Thank you in advance for answering those.

tripredacus

Re: Error Listings and Rejected Edits 2025
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2025, 11:35:16 am »
1. Can the distinction go with “ - Édition Spéciale” instead of “ - L’Édition Spéciale”?

That is what this entry should use.