dhaabi's VGC Database Work

[dhaabi]

Its cool to see all the different variants as it relates to some of the older items. Its always a pain when identifying even some of the newer variants due to case swaps etc. While I don't plan on making a lot of edits to the category (at least at the minute haha), I'd assume we should post matching listings such as Ebay in "Error listings and rejected edits" thread when submitting variant edits?

Also out of curiosity, what occurs when merging Developers and Publishers? If a listing has a Developer of #1001 and that gets merged into #1002 will the listing now show the developer as #1002?

Do you specifically mean for NES variants or variants in general when asking about posting to the forums?

If the former, I've been referencing an expert site which proves to have done a considerable amount of research relating to everything about the system, from the changes in back label design and different screw types used to varying PCB types. Just with Excitebike, I came across two or three cartridges which aren't outlined on the site, but I didn't submit them. It's simple to take parts from various NES cartridges and piece them together, so it's likely that that action was done for those items; it especially seems that way due to how the (likely pieced together) items conflicted with the information gathered from the source site, such as relating to SOQ design. I'm also not an expert on NES by any means (I'm not even sure I've held an NES cartridge), so I'd rather trust someone who's already put in that effort instead of trusting myself. With that said, if you're wanting to work through this category, send me a PM.

If the latter like with what you've done so far with PlayStation 2 [EU] items, that isn't necessary, especially since there are so many. I would recommend submitting information to either (or both) the Description or Box Text field to explain what the entry name descriptors are (alongside obvious differences like item numbers and barcode if they exist and are found), like I did with the above entries. It's too often that a variant entry will be submitted that's difficult to confirm, whether because of a lack of complementing information, by using a poor entry name, there being no images attached, or a combination of the three. So, the more information to confirm variant items, the better. However, if you want to make those forum posts, you still can.

When merging Developer and Publisher selections, it's how you've described. It's no different when two entries are merged together, with the remaining entry now being the one that's tied to members' accounts.

[tripredacus]

Its cool to see all the different variants as it relates to some of the older items. Its always a pain when identifying even some of the newer variants due to case swaps etc. While I don't plan on making a lot of edits to the category (at least at the minute haha), I'd assume we should post matching listings such as Ebay in "Error listings and rejected edits" thread when submitting variant edits?

It is my recommendation that you should not bother with attempting to do a full console category variation update without going all out. That means to document the box info, the carts, the manual/s and the inserts for each and every one. I did this for Sega Genesis [NA] and it took at least a month to do it. I previously had done it for PS2 hw which was much more difficult and took three months. You can do something like this for a particular game. For example I had done it a couple time for a game that I own, to find the variations of it and add just those.

For determining swaps, what I end up doing is starting with a single release. Then go on ebay (or wherever) and make a list of each combination and then how many instances of that combination are found. If it is a fairly common game with multiple vars, you will be able to determine which are most likely. An example

Instance 1 (found 20 times)
- cart made in 1
- cart label 1
- manual 1
- upc 1
- box number 1

Instance 2 (found 17 times)
- cart made in 2
- cart label 1
- manual 2
- upc 1
- box number 2

Instance 3 (found 2 times)
- cart label 2
- manual 1
- box number 1

Instance 4 (found 1 time)
- cart label 1
- box 2

You can figure out which ones are likely to be piecemealed and thus be able to determine what the correct contents are. If it is an item that you just can't find enough examples of, then don't bother adding the particular details or perhaps don't even add the item to the DB at all. So you being able to find something different on Ebay isn't enough to post it to Listing Errors, rather you would have to say "I found this combination on Ebay x times, here is an itm number example, and this other combination x times, here is an Ebay itm example" type post because if you aren't going to do that work, then we're going to have to do it for verification purposes.

I can understand that someone may want to not do a full on tackling of the NES [US] category because it is a lot of work to do and not easy like using a reference site to add missing entries.

Excitebike (5 screw cartridge / Nintendo Entertainment System)
Excitebike (5 screw cartridge / Nintendo Entertainment System™)
Excitebike (5 screw cartridge / Nintendo Entertainment System®)

Likely do not need "Nintendo Entertainment" in descriptor, just System, System™ and System® should be enough.

[dhaabi]

It is my recommendation that you should not bother with attempting to do a full console category variation update without going all out. That means to document the box info, the carts, the manual/s and the inserts for each and every one.

I can understand that someone may want to not do a full on tackling of the NES [US] category because it is a lot of work to do and not easy like using a reference site to add missing entries.

After going through 46 eBay listings, here are my findings just for Excitebike variants. It's worth noting that not every current eBay listing was a viable reference, most notably in instances when no image of the cartridge back was shown.

box design 1: circle seal, system
box design 2: circle seal, system™
box design 3: circle seal, system™, rev-a
box design 4: oval seal, system®, rev-a

box 1
10 - 11510 cart, no serial booklet
1 - 11510 cart, serial booklet

box 2
2 - 11510 cart, serial booklet
1 - 11510 cart, (missing booklet)
2 - 262018 cart, serial booklet
2 - 262018 cart, no serial booklet
1 - 262019 cart, (unconfirmed booklet)

box 3
1 - 5906 cart, (missing booklet)
9 - 5906 cart, serial booklet
4 - 262022 cart, serial booklet
1 - 262020 cart, no serial booklet
1 - 11510 cart, serial booklet
2 - 193976 cart, serial booklet
1 - 193976 cart, (missing booklet)
1 - 262021 cart, no serial booklet

box 4
5 - 193976 cart, serial booklet
2 - 193976 cart, (missing booklet)

From these listings, these are my takeaways:
11510 - box 1, no serial booklet
262019 - ?
262018 - box 2, unconfirmed booklet type
262020 - ?
262021 - ?
5906 - box 3, serial booklet
262022 - box 3, serial booklet
193976 - box 4, serial booklet

I was only able to find one copy each for 262019, 262020, and 262021, so no pattern was found. That said, the 262020 listing was likely pieced together, as it is a non REV-A cart paired with a REV-A box.

If this is sufficient research (which it seems so), I'll move forward and update 11510, 262018, 5906, 262022, and 193976.

[tripredacus]

If you feel confident that those combinations you found are correct, then you can do the update or add them. If you are unsure, don't do it or put them off to be researched again in the future.

[dhaabi]

Images for 5906, 11510, 193976, 262018, and 262022 have been submitted or corrected. Details for box packaging and Instruction Booklet have also been added, since there are multiple variants for both components worth identifying.

Since I couldn't confirm Instruction Booklet information for 262018, I omitted the information altogether until it can be.

It is also worth mentioning that 11510 was previously identified as the "System" 5-screw cartridge variant by edit history, though conflicting box art was submitted afterward. Its front image slot has been updated to reflect what the entry actually represents.

[dhaabi]

Ten variants of Golf for NES [US] are now present in the category.

Eleven variants have been reported to exist for Golf in the US. After sifting through around 2,500 search results and actually inspecting around 400, I've been unable to confirm an eleventh. Perhaps it exists, but I've stopped my search for it. It is the same cartridge as 262294, aside from the amount of screws. Below are its reported details, for anyone wanting to confirm its existence:

Nintendo Entertainment System logo on cartridge label
circle Seal of Quality present on cartridge label
cartridge back label text: Nintendo®
3-screw cartridge
cartridge does not feature item number

Below is a list of all US NES items with five or more variants, according to the source I'm referencing. Managing Golf did not take long at all despite it being the game with most variants, now that I understand the workflow needing to be done. So, I probably will continue going through this list, and perhaps later the items with fewer variant totals.

10-Yard Fight: 7
1942: 5
Castlevania: 6
Ghosts 'n Goblins: 5
Goonies II, The: 5
Gradius: 5
Hogan's Alley: 8
Jeopardy!: 5
Karate Champ: 5
Kid Icarus: 5
Kung Fu: 8
Legend of Zelda, The: 9
Lunar Pool: 7
Mario Bros.: 5
Mega Man: 5
Metroid: 8
Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!: 7
Pinball: 6
Pro Wrestling: 6
R.C. Pro-Am: 5
Rad Racer: 6
Rygar: 5
Slalom: 5
Spy Hunter: 6
Star Voyager: 4
Super Mario Bros.: 8
Super Mario Bros. 2: 6
Super Pitfall: 5
Tag Team Wrestling: 5
Tecmo Bowl: 5
Tennis: 5
Tiger-Helo: 5

* need more information

Going forward, I don't anticipate posting when a game's variants have been properly submitted each time. For those reading, it should be expected that many of the database's older entries will be incorrect in some capacity due to conflicting submission data, which may lead to them "changing" to represent something else.

[dhaabi]

Going forward, I don't anticipate posting when a game's variants have been properly submitted each time.

Of course, I decide to post immediately after submitting variants for the next game: The Legend of Zelda.

In researching this game, I've come to realize that there's more to variant tracking with NES than I had previously thought. It's not common knowledge although it is known and has been discussed in other communities: there are Instruction Booklet variants which go beyond item numbers. Opening the booklet, the Nintendo Seal of Quality is located on page 1. What isn't unexpected is that the Seal design updates alongside the box and cartridge label (or perhaps it's not unexpected, but certainly overlooked or an aspect unknown to casual collectors.) However, the item number doesn't always update with these changes, such as with the following two examples:
circle Seal of Quality Instruction Booklet NES-ZL-USA-1
oval Seal of Quality™ Instruction Booklet NES-ZL-USA-1

Of course, this makes research much more difficult, as the variant detail is located in the interior pages of the booklet, normally hidden out of view.

[tripredacus]

Do you have a spreadsheet or been keeping any sort of connected image list for these cart variations for NES?

The Excitebike cart I own does not fit in with any of the entries on the site. The one I have has the front features of this entry:
https://vgcollect.com/item/5906
but the back features of this entry:
https://vgcollect.com/item/262021

So the main difference is that it is the same as 5906 but does not have the "1985" on the back label.

[dhaabi]

Do you have a spreadsheet or been keeping any sort of connected image list for these cart variations for NES?

The Excitebike cart I own does not fit in with any of the entries on the site. The one I have has the front features of this entry:
https://vgcollect.com/item/5906
but the back features of this entry:
https://vgcollect.com/item/262021

So the main difference is that it is the same as 5906 but does not have the "1985" on the back label.

For the NES work, I've been maintaining individual text documents since I find it easier in this instance to keep track of which components are included in each individual boxed release I come across. So, taking The Legend of Zelda as an example, here is a small blurb of how that information is formatted.

box 1
1. cart 1, (missing IB) https://www.ebay.com/itm/134956452108
2. cart 1, non-serial IB, Maps and Strategies https://www.ebay.com/itm/176265158381
3. cart 1, non-serial IB, Nintendo dust sleeve https://www.ebay.com/itm/295706523363
4. cart 1, non-serial IB, Maps and Strategies, Nintendo dust sleeve, purple insert, "Free membership" https://www.ebay.com/itm/284645600934


box 2
1. cart 4, non-serial IB, Maps and Strategies, foam insert https://www.ebay.com/itm/116083623569
2. cart 4, non-serial IB, Maps and Strategies https://www.ebay.com/itm/403463408261
3. cart 4, (missing IB), Maps and Strategies, Nintendo dust sleeve https://www.ebay.com/itm/325993617328
4. cart 4, (missing IB), Nintendo dust sleeve https://www.ebay.com/itm/235427488001
5. cart 1, non-serial IB, Maps and Strategies, Nintendo dust sleeve, foam insert https://www.ebay.com/itm/256424987073

5906's previous Description information incorrectly mentioned that "1985" was present after "ⓂNintendo®." I've amended that just now. (There is no "ⓂNintendo® 1985" back cartridge label design.) There are a lot of variances to keep track of for these items, so it was just a matter of not fully updating the information for 5906 when moving onward from one entry to the next. Excitebike was the first game I started collecting research for, meaning I think I've been become better in maintaining and transcribing information now that I'm becoming more accustomed to where variances may exist.

[tripredacus]

May I make a recommendation. Linking to Ebay resources is fine, but for a large project you should not rely on Ebay to retain those images. Especially if you think it may be more than 1-2 months to work on a project. I have done things 2 different ways. First using a text file like you do, you can see in this post:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,6782.msg128484.html#msg128484
Where each item on the list has a number, and that number corresponds with a number on an image file that I have saved locally.

When I did PS2 consoles, I changed to a spreadsheet, but mostly because of the many different things I was tracking that I could assign columns to. As well as use colors.
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,6782.msg132606.html#msg132606
On here, there is also an "ID" column that linked to images I had saved. This way I could easily go back and look at the pictures if I needed to compare something.

[tripredacus]

Also, there is some info on here (PS1 model prefixes) that should be present in the PS1 ID Guide.
https://www.consolemods.org/wiki/AV:Sony_model_prefixes

[dhaabi]

May I make a recommendation. Linking to Ebay resources is fine, but for a large project you should not rely on Ebay to retain those images. Especially if you think it may be more than 1-2 months to work on a project. I have done things 2 different ways. First using a text file like you do, you can see in this post:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,6782.msg128484.html#msg128484
Where each item on the list has a number, and that number corresponds with a number on an image file that I have saved locally.

When I did PS2 consoles, I changed to a spreadsheet, but mostly because of the many different things I was tracking that I could assign columns to. As well as use colors.
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,6782.msg132606.html#msg132606
On here, there is also an "ID" column that linked to images I had saved. This way I could easily go back and look at the pictures if I needed to compare something.

Regarding the nature of this NES work, each game can be considered its own project, meaning very little time is spent before it's completed. As I've gone about collecting research, I tend to save images during the process while overwriting them as better ones are found, so the eBay links being tracked is an ideal safety measure in the event information is lost or new information comes to light (such as a box variation becoming known which I had overlooked before, which has already occurred once.) Since each "project" is completed in a short amount of time, I've not had any issues relating to expiring links. I still have all the final images used for entries saved locally, though, in the event I'm needing to reference them again.

I'm sure there is an ideal way to collect this information in a spreadsheet, but I've found it much easier to use a text file since variances in box designs have (so far, with the five games I've studied) followed a straightforward progression of updates. In the same text file, I also maintain track of these box differences, like in the below example:

box 1 design: circle Seal, System, Bros.™, hang-tab back, Nintendo label seal (variant observed)
box 2 design: circle Seal, System, Bros.™, hang-tab back, originally shrinkwrapped
box 3 design: circle Seal, System, Bros.™, hang-tab back, Game-Pak
box 4 design: circle Seal, System, Bros.™, hang-tab back, NES P SM, Game-Pak
box 5 design: circle Seal, System™, Bros.™, hang-tab back, NES P SM, Game-Pak
box 6 design: circle Seal, System™, Bros.™, NES P SM, Game-Pak
box 7 design: circle Seal, System™, Bros.™, REV-A, NES P SM, Game-Pak
box 8 design: oval Seal™, System®, Bros.®, REV-A, NES P SM, Game-Pak
box 9 design: oval Seal®, System®, Bros.®, REV-A, NES P SM, Game-Pak

Also, there is some info on here (PS1 model prefixes) that should be present in the PS1 ID Guide.
https://www.consolemods.org/wiki/AV:Sony_model_prefixes

I'll be looking at this in the upcoming days when I have more time.

[dhaabi]

Every post in the Sony PlayStation topic has been updated to include a list of item number prefixes relating to items found in each sub-category. If anyone knows of any prefixes which I may have overlooked, please inform me so that I may update these sections.

I've now submitted 15,000 database entries.